煮酒論史:為什么19世紀(jì)日本比中國(guó)更容易適應(yīng)西方趨勢(shì)?
Why did japan have an easier time adapting to western trends compared to china in the 19th century?譯文簡(jiǎn)介
中國(guó)是一個(gè)更大,更完善的社會(huì),與歐洲有著良好的貿(mào)易往來,但盡管日本當(dāng)時(shí)只是一個(gè)由多個(gè)宗族分裂的大島,最終中國(guó)卻被日本擊敗。到底是什么導(dǎo)致了這個(gè)?是因?yàn)樗捏w積小,日本能更容易受到影響嗎?
正文翻譯
Why did japan have an easier time adapting to western trends compared to china in the 19th century?
煮酒論史:為什么19世紀(jì)日本比中國(guó)更容易適應(yīng)西方趨勢(shì)?
煮酒論史:為什么19世紀(jì)日本比中國(guó)更容易適應(yīng)西方趨勢(shì)?
China was a much larger and well established society with good trade paths with Europe but was eventually beaten out by Japan even though Japan is a large island that was split by multiple clans at the time. What exactly led to this? Was Japan able to be influenced easier because of it's small size?
中國(guó)是一個(gè)更大,更完善的社會(huì),與歐洲有著良好的貿(mào)易往來,但盡管日本當(dāng)時(shí)只是一個(gè)由多個(gè)宗族分裂的大島,最終中國(guó)卻被日本擊敗。到底是什么導(dǎo)致了這個(gè)?是因?yàn)樗捏w積小,日本能更容易受到影響嗎?
中國(guó)是一個(gè)更大,更完善的社會(huì),與歐洲有著良好的貿(mào)易往來,但盡管日本當(dāng)時(shí)只是一個(gè)由多個(gè)宗族分裂的大島,最終中國(guó)卻被日本擊敗。到底是什么導(dǎo)致了這個(gè)?是因?yàn)樗捏w積小,日本能更容易受到影響嗎?
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Japan had very little that Europe wanted in the 19th century.
The Americans forcibly opened the country with admiral Matthew Perry, but there was no commodity they wanted in particular.
China was different.
China grew tea.
China was the only place in the world that grew tea in any quantity.
在19世紀(jì),日本幾乎沒有歐洲想要的東西。
美國(guó)人與海軍上將馬修·佩里強(qiáng)行打開了這個(gè)國(guó)家,但他們沒有特別想要的商品。
中國(guó)與眾不同。
中國(guó)種茶。
中國(guó)是世界上唯一種植極大數(shù)量茶的地方。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
The Chinese didn't want anything the British had.
The British paid for the tea with silver.
The British started running out of silver.
The British then formalized the production and sale of opium...
英國(guó)人想要茶
中國(guó)人不想要英國(guó)人擁有的任何東西。
英國(guó)人用銀買了茶。
英國(guó)人開始耗盡白銀。
然后英國(guó)人正式開始了鴉片的生產(chǎn)和銷售。
The Chinese started paying for the opium with silver.
The Chinese tried to ban the trade.
The British said no and fought a war to keep opium legal.
China then had one of the top 3 deadliest wars in world history in the 1850s.
英國(guó)人還發(fā)現(xiàn)印度東北地區(qū)可以種植茶。
中國(guó)人開始用白銀為鴉片買單。
中國(guó)人試圖禁止這種貿(mào)易。
英國(guó)人說不,并為保持鴉片合法而戰(zhàn)。
然后,中國(guó)招致了1850年代世界歷史上三大最致命的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)之一。
Then Russia took an area the size of France and Germany combined by threatening China when it was involved in the aforementioned wars.
Then there was a war with France where China lost suzerainty over Vietnam.
Then the northwest part of China revolted. (Though the Chinese won this war)
然后,英國(guó)人發(fā)動(dòng)了另一場(chǎng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng),以出售更多的鴉片。
然后,俄羅斯在參與上述戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)時(shí)威脅中國(guó),占領(lǐng)了中國(guó)相當(dāng)于法國(guó)和德國(guó)加起來的面積。
然后中國(guó)與法國(guó)發(fā)生戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng),中國(guó)失去對(duì)越南的宗主權(quán)。
然后,中國(guó)西北地區(qū)起義。(不過中國(guó)人贏得了這場(chǎng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng))
Japan had the consolidation before the Meiji restoration.. But it never had foreigners actively trying to destabilise it and take territory.
China was larger, more unstable, and the foreign powers were usually fanning the flames.
然后與日本發(fā)生戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)……中國(guó)輸了。
日本在明治維新之前就進(jìn)行了鞏固。但是從來沒有外國(guó)人積極試圖破壞它的穩(wěn)定并占領(lǐng)其領(lǐng)土。
中國(guó)更大,更不穩(wěn)定,外國(guó)大國(guó)經(jīng)常在煽風(fēng)點(diǎn)火。
Thank you for this concise breakdown of events. I have always been confused by exactly what happened between Europe and China in the 1800s, and you've provided an excellent summary. Much appreciated.
謝謝你對(duì)事件的簡(jiǎn)要介紹。我一直對(duì)1800年代歐洲和中國(guó)之間發(fā)生的確切事情感到困惑,并且你提供了出色的總結(jié)。非常感激。
Not to mention this entire time the Japanese looked across the sea and thought “holy shit we got to make preparations or that will happen to us”
更不用說日本人整天望著大海,想著 “日恁娘,我們必須做好準(zhǔn)備,否則這種事情會(huì)發(fā)生在我們身上”
If you look at the history of the two to understand why Japan was able to adapt quicker than China I think. China had a long history of dominance in Asia and saw no need to adopt these new western ideas. Japan on the other hand had a history of taking Chinese ideas and adapting it into their own culture and society. When Japan (which was not split by multiple clans at the time btw) was forced open by the Americans, they quickly realized how outclassed they were and so decided to modernize in order to defend itself. Japan's history of adapting foreign ideas made it easy for them to take and adapt Western ideas to fit in with Japanese society.
如果你看一下兩者的歷史,就可以理解為什么日本能比中國(guó)更快地適應(yīng)。中國(guó)在亞洲具有悠久的統(tǒng)治歷史,無需采用這些西方新思想。另一方面,日本有吸收中國(guó)思想并將其適應(yīng)自己的文化和社會(huì)的歷史。當(dāng)日本(當(dāng)時(shí)并沒有由多個(gè)宗族分裂)被美國(guó)人強(qiáng)行開放時(shí),他們很快意識(shí)到美國(guó)人有多強(qiáng)大,因此決定現(xiàn)代化以保衛(wèi)自己。日本適應(yīng)外國(guó)思想的歷史使他們很容易接受和適應(yīng)西方思想,以適應(yīng)日本社會(huì)。
Japan realized how behind they were and sent scholars abroad all over the world to learn and come back. Japan then adapted purposefully to become more westernized and are now as successful if not more so than all western countries
日本意識(shí)到了自己的落后,并向世界各地派遣學(xué)者學(xué)習(xí)和回來。然后,日本有目的地進(jìn)行了調(diào)整,以更加西化,如今,與所有西方國(guó)家相比,日本取得的成功甚至比他們更大。
Slight adjustment:
Japan realized how behind they were and sent scholars abroad all over the world to learn and come back. Japan then adapted purposefully to become more westernized.
They also saw that to achieve proper 'great power' status and have a say on the global stage, they needed to build a colonial empire, like the Westerners. They used their new knowledge and tech to try to conquer a large swatch of Asia and assert themselves as the key regional power. The US bombed the crap out of them. Seeing an emerging new period of tension with the USSR, they realised the strategic value of rebuilding and maintaining a presence in Japan, and so the US reformed and reconstructed the nation into serving as a useful ally and forward base in Asia. The Japanese made the most of the opportunity
and are now as successful if not more so than all western countries
輕微調(diào)整一下你的說辭:
“日本意識(shí)到了自己的落后,并向世界各地派遣學(xué)者學(xué)習(xí)和回來。然后,日本有目的地進(jìn)行了調(diào)整,以更加西化?!?br /> 他們還看到,要獲得適當(dāng)?shù)摹按髧?guó)”地位并在全球舞臺(tái)上擁有發(fā)言權(quán),他們需要像西方人一樣建立一個(gè)殖民帝國(guó)。他們利用自己的新知識(shí)和新技術(shù)來征服亞洲的一大塊地區(qū),并宣稱自己是關(guān)鍵的地區(qū)力量。美國(guó)對(duì)他們一頓狂轟濫炸。直達(dá)與蘇聯(lián)關(guān)系緊張的新時(shí)期,他們意識(shí)到重建和維持在日本的存在的戰(zhàn)略價(jià)值,因此美國(guó)對(duì)日本進(jìn)行了改革和重建,使其成為亞洲有用的盟友和前進(jìn)基地。日本人充分利用了這個(gè)機(jī)會(huì),所以
“如今,與所有西方國(guó)家相比,日本取得的成功甚至比他們更大?!?/b>
One great difference I would say is decentralization.
Power should never be only measured by resources and military hardware, but also logistic, governing and management.
Japan, for most of her history, never enjoyed a highly centralized government like China. China's education, military, culture, diplomacy, domestic policy, economy etc. were highly dictated or swayed by the dynasties sitting on the throne. While Japan, up until Meiji Era, was highly decentralized. While paying taxing to the central government(Shogun) and sworn for never challenge the governing authority of the Shogun (ultimate loyalty is still the Emperor), these self-ruling domains with their own ruling clans had a lot liberty over education, culture, economy, domestic policy within the boundary of domains. (You can think of this as a confederation with Shogun as the central governing organ and Emperors as the figure head.) In China, when the central government was holding an xenophobic attitude, the local governments had to more or less follow the same mood. While in Japan, even thought the Edo shogun was xenophobic, some local domains had chose to accept and learn from the west. (A great example is the Shimazu clan of Satsuma Domain)
我要說的一個(gè)很大的區(qū)別是權(quán)力下放。
權(quán)力絕不僅應(yīng)該由資源和軍事硬件來衡量,還應(yīng)該由后勤,治理和管理來衡量。
在她的大部分歷史中,日本從未有過像中國(guó)這樣享有高度中央集權(quán)的政府。中國(guó)的教育,軍事,文化,外交,國(guó)內(nèi)政策,經(jīng)濟(jì)等都受到統(tǒng)治王朝的高度支配或影響。在明治時(shí)代之前的日本高度分散。雖然向中央政府(幕府將軍)繳稅并且發(fā)誓永遠(yuǎn)不挑戰(zhàn)幕府的統(tǒng)治權(quán)威(最終忠誠(chéng)的對(duì)象仍然是皇帝),但這些擁有自己統(tǒng)治家族的大名在教育,文化,經(jīng)濟(jì)方面享有很大的自由,是其藩內(nèi)的內(nèi)部政策。(你可以將其視為以幕府將軍為中央統(tǒng)治機(jī)構(gòu),以天皇為首相的邦聯(lián)。)在中國(guó),中央政府持仇外態(tài)度時(shí),地方政府或多或少都遵循著同樣的心情。在日本時(shí),即使江戶幕府將軍被認(rèn)為是仇外的,一些當(dāng)?shù)厝诉€是選擇了接受西方并向西方學(xué)習(xí)。(一個(gè)很好的例子是薩摩藩的島津氏族)
In China, the Manchurian Court was greatly criticized for it's corruption and lack of the power to reform in the face of Western Challenger. While in Japan, Satsuma and Chōshū were greatly praised for the rebellion against the central government and help Japan to Westernized.
A different attitude was hold by both nations, while China was very anti-western and grudged the "humiliation" brought by the westerners and later Japan, Japan had chose to embrace Western ideas and Western technologies.
而且,盡管中國(guó)一向使國(guó)家(朝代宮廷)與政府視作一體,日本卻始終了解國(guó)家(皇帝)與政府(幕府家族)的分離。西方化和基督教化是由滿洲朝廷鎮(zhèn)壓和審查(義和團(tuán)運(yùn)動(dòng))的。朝廷認(rèn)為這些是對(duì)王朝(國(guó)家和政府)權(quán)威的蔑視。同時(shí),在日本,薩摩藩和長(zhǎng)州藩選擇反抗江戶幕府并西化,同時(shí)宣布忠于天皇。
在中國(guó),滿洲朝廷因其腐敗和面對(duì)西方挑戰(zhàn)者而缺乏改革的能力而受到極大的批評(píng)。在日本期間,薩摩番和長(zhǎng)州藩因反抗中央政府并幫助日本西化而受到贊揚(yáng)。
兩國(guó)持不同的態(tài)度,而中國(guó)非常反西方,并且對(duì)西方人和后來日本帶來的“屈辱”懷恨在心,日本選擇了接受西方思想和西方技術(shù)。
A couple quick corrections first- while China didn't close their borders like Japan did, they didn't have that great trade routes with Europe. The Suez and Panama canals still hadn't been finished, pirates were still a problem, the overland route was very long, and Europe had long had difficulty finding products China wanted to trade for, their only two real big successes being the Spanish selling them silver from south america and the British selling them opium from India. Japan was also not really "split by multiple clans" at the time. Hokkaido was still held by native Ainu tribes and it was a feudal system that had local daimyo warlords that enjoyed a degree of autonomy, but those were united under a central military dictatorship until they reformed into a democracy towards the end of the 1800s.
首先進(jìn)行幾個(gè)快速更正-盡管中國(guó)沒有像日本那樣關(guān)閉邊界,但它們與歐洲的貿(mào)易路線并不理想。蘇伊士和巴拿馬運(yùn)河還沒有完工,海盜仍然是一個(gè)問題,陸路漫長(zhǎng),歐洲長(zhǎng)期以來一直難以找到中國(guó)想交易的產(chǎn)品,他們僅有的兩個(gè)真正的大成功是西班牙向他們出售來自南美的白銀和英國(guó)從印度出售的鴉片。當(dāng)時(shí)日本還沒有真正“被多個(gè)氏族割裂”。北海道仍然由阿伊努人土著部落控制,這是一個(gè)具有封建制度的地方大名,享有一定程度的自治權(quán),但這些人在中央軍事獨(dú)裁統(tǒng)治下統(tǒng)一起來,直到1800年代末改革成民主國(guó)家。
日本之所以做得更好,部分原因是因?yàn)橹袊?guó)的聲名太卓著。因?yàn)樗麄兪侨绱酥匾?,所以與他們進(jìn)行貿(mào)易是英國(guó)等外部參與者的主要目標(biāo)之一,因此他們首先瞄準(zhǔn)中國(guó)。同時(shí),中國(guó)人起初對(duì)這些人很不屑一顧,期望英國(guó)人遵守中國(guó)所有鄰國(guó)的朝貢制度,因?yàn)樗麄冋J(rèn)為中國(guó)是世界的中心,比其他所有國(guó)家都更大。現(xiàn)實(shí)是,他們臃腫,充斥著腐敗、海盜、地方軍閥和經(jīng)濟(jì)問題,他們對(duì)挑戰(zhàn)英國(guó)海軍力量尚未做好準(zhǔn)備。
Just think about it. The big regional power that's always been bigger than Japan, that Japan's never messed with and from whom they absorbed a lot of culture is getting its shit kicked in by the same people who are now knocking on your door. The world is getting divided into Imperial powers and the lesser countries that are subjugated by them. Which side do you want to be on? They wanted to be on the side that was exploiting others, not the side getting exploited.
同時(shí),從日本的角度來看,他們?cè)缫褜⑼鈬?guó)人拒之門外,他們擔(dān)心,如果像基督教這樣的東西對(duì)萬里之遙的教皇保持忠誠(chéng),將會(huì)威脅那里的軍事獨(dú)裁統(tǒng)治。但是,當(dāng)佩里率領(lǐng)的美國(guó)代表團(tuán)強(qiáng)迫該國(guó)開放貿(mào)易時(shí),閉關(guān)才結(jié)束。他們?cè)僖矝]有避免對(duì)世界開放邊界。大約在同一時(shí)間,中國(guó)被英帝國(guó)擊敗,西方帝國(guó)大國(guó)普遍到處踐踏。
思考一下。一個(gè)一直比日本強(qiáng)、日本從來都干得不過的、日本還從他們那里吸收了許多文化的地區(qū)大國(guó),被別人揍了,而這幫人現(xiàn)在在敲日本的門。世界正在被劃分為帝國(guó)和被帝國(guó)征服的小國(guó)。你想站在哪一邊?他們想站在剝削他人的一邊,而不是被剝削的一邊。
I should also notice that one major factor in their success at this was that Japan already had a surprisingly good education system when the country was opened. Small temple-based classrooms had been opened across the country during the long peaceful edo period, and Japan boasted one of the higher rates of literacy in the world in the late 19th century.
實(shí)際上,日本耶有很多政治動(dòng)亂,幕府倒臺(tái),叛亂和政變企圖。最后,他們所做的是以極大的努力去協(xié)同,以大多數(shù)其他非西方國(guó)家所沒有的方式進(jìn)行現(xiàn)代化。他們派遣探險(xiǎn)隊(duì)前往世界各地研究每個(gè)國(guó)家的出色表現(xiàn),他們引進(jìn)了技術(shù)并學(xué)會(huì)了復(fù)制技術(shù),并聘請(qǐng)了來自西方國(guó)家的專家來他們的大學(xué)任教,從而培養(yǎng)了一代新的工程師和領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人。他們利用英俄之間的敵對(duì)關(guān)系與英國(guó)結(jié)盟并建立了海軍。
我還注意到,其成功的一個(gè)主要因素是,日本在開放之時(shí)就已經(jīng)擁有了令人驚訝的良好教育體系。在漫長(zhǎng)的和平的江戶時(shí)代,在全國(guó)各地開設(shè)了以寺廟為基礎(chǔ)的小型教室,日本在19世紀(jì)后期成為世界上識(shí)字率較高的國(guó)家之一。
They didn’t, they were just able to invest more money in industry. Japan and the United States before WW2 had the capitalist world’s highest rates of growth, at around 3%. This isn’t fast by today’s standards, but we have to keep in mind that financial institutions and economic theory were far less advanced than they are today, so the allocation of investment was less efficient. Most countries grew at 1% or less. Colonized and semi colonized nations grew at some of the lowest rates.
The centerpiece of Japanese growth was the Zaibatsu corporation. Zaibatsu were formed by merchant clans who generally intermarried into politically influential samurai families after the Meiji restoration. Zaibatsu had their own banks attached to them and government connections to allow for favorable investment conditions. The net debt in the Japanese economy was low compared to the returns of major businesses.
他們沒有(比中國(guó)更能適應(yīng)),他們只是能夠在工業(yè)上投資更多的錢。第二次世界大戰(zhàn)之前的日本和美國(guó)的資本主義世界增長(zhǎng)率最高,約為3%。按照今天的標(biāo)準(zhǔn),這還算不上快,但是我們必須記住,當(dāng)時(shí)的金融機(jī)構(gòu)和經(jīng)濟(jì)理論遠(yuǎn)沒有今天先進(jìn),因此投資分配的效率也較低。大多數(shù)國(guó)家的增長(zhǎng)率不超過1%。殖民地和半殖民地國(guó)家的增長(zhǎng)率更低。
日本增長(zhǎng)的核心是財(cái)閥公司。財(cái)閥由商人宗族組成,這些商人通常在明治維新后與具有政治影響力的武士家庭通婚。財(cái)閥擁有自己的銀行和政府機(jī)構(gòu),以提供有利的投資條件。與主要業(yè)務(wù)的回報(bào)相比,日本經(jīng)濟(jì)中的凈債務(wù)較低。
China was actually aware of European technological superiority in weapons and industry and had its own self strengthening movement that tried in earnest to make things better. However, it failed because it didn’t make sense economically.
在中國(guó),投資失敗的原因有很多。首先,國(guó)內(nèi)動(dòng)蕩和歷史上最血腥的內(nèi)戰(zhàn)極大地破壞了清朝的經(jīng)濟(jì)。接下來,來自歐洲的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)抑制了增長(zhǎng)。最后,中國(guó)的不平等程度和金融機(jī)構(gòu)的發(fā)達(dá)程度低于日本財(cái)閥,這意味著資本沒有那么集中。所有這些因素確保了中國(guó)工業(yè)化的停滯。
中國(guó)實(shí)際上意識(shí)到了歐洲在武器和工業(yè)上的技術(shù)優(yōu)勢(shì),并進(jìn)行了自己的自我強(qiáng)化運(yùn)動(dòng),以期努力使事情變得更好。但是,它失敗了,因?yàn)樵诮?jīng)濟(jì)上沒有意義。