QA問答:越南人有中國(guó)血統(tǒng)嗎?
Do Vietnamese have Chinese blood?譯文簡(jiǎn)介
關(guān)于越南人血統(tǒng)的討論。
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If you ask most Vietnamese nationalists, they will certainly say no because the Vietnamese government has been spreading propaganda that Chinese are enemies of Vietnamese. So they don’t want to be related to the Chinese at all even though this might not be true.
如果你問大多數(shù)越南民族主義者,他們肯定會(huì)說(shuō)不,因?yàn)樵侥险恢痹谛麄髦袊?guó)人是越南人的敵人。所以他們根本不想和中國(guó)人有任何關(guān)系,即使這可能不是真的。
這些越南民族主義者說(shuō),即使在中國(guó)直接統(tǒng)治1000多年后,越南人也應(yīng)該是純種的。
這就好比說(shuō)歐洲人從來(lái)沒有在英國(guó)統(tǒng)治下移民到美國(guó)和澳大利亞,今天的美國(guó)人和澳大利亞人都是“紅印第安人和土著澳大利亞人”,他們奇跡般的長(zhǎng)得像歐洲人,母語(yǔ)是英語(yǔ)。
Those Vietnamese with Chinese blood are called Kinh. There are more than 50 other ethnics in Vietnam.
所以你應(yīng)該知道哪種理論更有邏輯。
那些有中國(guó)血統(tǒng)的越南人被稱為京族(Kinh)。越南還有50多個(gè)其他民族。
評(píng)論
Those with purest genetics are those who have no vietnamese blood whatsoever. Most vietnamese share genetics with chinese, particularly southern chinese.
那些遺傳最純正的人是那些沒有越南血統(tǒng)的人。大多數(shù)越南人與中國(guó)人,尤其是與南方中國(guó)人有相同的基因。
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Yes, not to mention that north of that border you can find Yue minority peoples.
是的,更不用說(shuō)在邊界以北你可以找到越族。
Agreed!
i thought I was all Vietnamese until recently when I found out through my DNA test that I am Chinese Vietnamese Thai Cambodian and sprinkled with Filipino Malaysian and Indonesian. It was a shocker! So good luck if one thinks he or she is all Vietnamese!
同意!
我以為我完全是越南人,直到最近我通過DNA測(cè)試發(fā)現(xiàn)我有中國(guó)人、越南人、泰國(guó)人、柬埔寨人,還有菲律賓人、馬來(lái)西亞人還有印度尼西亞人基因。真是令人震驚!所以,如果有人認(rèn)為他或她完全是越南人,那就祝其好運(yùn)!
LOL. Do you know what is confidence level in genetic test? It doesn’t mean that if you have 1% Malay ancestry, you have Malay ancestors. Just take the ethnicity with the greatest percentage.
哈哈,你知道基因測(cè)試的可信度是多少嗎?這并不意味著如果你有1%的馬來(lái)血統(tǒng),你就有馬來(lái)血統(tǒng)。要以百分比最高的種族為準(zhǔn)。
Oh we can just say a lot of Chinese have Vietnamese blood. I won't mind.
哦,我們也可以說(shuō)很多中國(guó)人都有越南血統(tǒng)。我不介意。
If you can prove that by quoting history books. I won’t mind either.
如果你能引用歷史書來(lái)證明的話。我也不介意。
You know it is very popular to do an ancestry gene test? Like 23andme or Wegene? All my southern Chinese friends who did the test all found a small percentage of gene from Vietnam. Southern Chinese means majority of their genetic composition are southern Chinese genes, not northern Chinese genes.
你知道做血統(tǒng)基因測(cè)試是很流行的嗎?像23andme或者Wegene?(譯注:兩者都是DNA鑒定公司)我所有做測(cè)試的中國(guó)南方朋友都發(fā)現(xiàn)了一小部分來(lái)自越南的基因。南方人意味著他們的基因組成大部分是南方人的基因,而不是北方人的基因。
Do you know there are 56 ethnicities in China. Do you know that there are 54 ethnicities in Vietnam? How can you quote genetics test without giving the ethnicity? That’s just like saying all Americans have African genes.
你知道中國(guó)有56個(gè)民族嗎?你知道越南有54個(gè)民族嗎?你怎么能引用基因測(cè)試而不給出民族?這就好比說(shuō)所有的美國(guó)人都有非洲基因。
Well then. It is just a lighthearted comments, not aimed at writing a serious genetic essay. If you don't like it then forget it. Geez, how serious.
那么好吧,這只是一個(gè)輕松的評(píng)論,并不是為了寫一篇嚴(yán)肅的遺傳學(xué)文章。如果你不喜歡,那就忘了它。天啊,你太嚴(yán)肅了。
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Some people just find the truth so hard to swallow that they have the most violent reactions if it's even suggested as a possibility. Reminds me of the white supremacists who find out they're partly black.
有些人只是覺得真相難以接受,即使有人暗示他們有這種可能,他們也會(huì)有最強(qiáng)烈的反應(yīng)。讓我想起那些白人至上主義者,他們發(fā)現(xiàn)自己有一部分是黑人基因。
There is a word 百越hundreds(of)viet in Chinese to call the ethnicities living in ancient south China, so no surprise find heirs of 百越 both in modern China and Vietnam~
漢語(yǔ)中有一個(gè)詞“百越”,用來(lái)稱呼生活在古代中國(guó)南方的民族,所以在現(xiàn)代中國(guó)和越南都能找到“百越”的繼承人也就不足為奇了。
You are right. And some idiots think that the Vietnamese have Chinese blood. The other idiots think that the Chinese have Vietnamese blood.
你是對(duì)的。有些白癡認(rèn)為越南人有中國(guó)人的血統(tǒng)。其他白癡認(rèn)為中國(guó)人有越南人的血統(tǒng)。
Sorry for that guy :) please don’t mind him. I find your information interesting. Thanks for sharing
為那個(gè)家伙感到抱歉,別理他。我覺得你說(shuō)的很有意思。謝謝分享。
My Vietnamese friend said that she never knows how the Vietnamese government comes up with 54 ethnicity. When she was studying in university in Vietnam long time ago, there was no text book saying that Vietnam has 54 ethnicity. As she understand, the max number is about 10 ethnicity. She said now Vietnamese government wants to make country interesting and important to foreigners by making up 54 ethnicity because they see China has 54 and so Vietnam just wants to do the same thing.
我的越南朋友說(shuō),她從來(lái)不知道越南政府是怎么想出54個(gè)種族的。很久以前她在越南讀大學(xué)時(shí),沒有一本教科書說(shuō)越南有54個(gè)民族。據(jù)她所知,最多10個(gè)民族。她說(shuō),現(xiàn)在越南政府想讓這個(gè)國(guó)家對(duì)外國(guó)人來(lái)說(shuō)變得有趣、重要,因?yàn)樗麄兛吹街袊?guó)有56個(gè)民族,所以越南也想做同樣的事情。
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How did they get 54 ethnicities? By counting all the Central Highland tribes. Genetically, there are only two ‘races’ indigenous to Central Highlands. The Mon-Khmer and Malayo-Polynesians. But within those categories you find the Ede, Jarai, and Raglai peoples, all classed as Malayo-Polynesians, as are the Cham who controlled the Central Highlands over a thousand years ago, as Hindu temples from 700 AD on show. The remainder of highland tribes were classified as Mon-Khmer, distantly related to Cambodians and Burmese. The Mon-Khmer tribes were smaller than the Malayo-Polynesian groups, and spread more widely. All of them in the 1960s were assessed to add up to no more than a few million people at the most, and obviously dwarfed by the sheer numbers of Kinh people in the Red River and Mekong/Bassac regions.
他們是怎么搞到54個(gè)民族的?算上所有的高地部落。從基因上講,只有兩個(gè)“種族”是中部高地的土著。孟高棉人和馬來(lái)波利尼西亞人。
但在這些類別中,你會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)埃德人、加萊人和拉格萊人都被歸類為馬來(lái)亞波利尼西亞人,就像一千年前控制中部高地的占族人一樣。其余的高地部落被歸類為蒙-高棉,與柬埔寨人和緬甸人是遠(yuǎn)親。蒙-高棉部落比馬來(lái)-波利尼西亞部落小,分布更廣。在20世紀(jì)60年代,所有這些人加起來(lái)最多不超過幾百萬(wàn)人,與紅河和湄公河/巴薩河地區(qū)的京族人的絕對(duì)數(shù)量相比,顯然相形見絀。
說(shuō)到湄公河/巴薩河,那里有一百萬(wàn)左右的柬埔寨民族的越南人。在茶榮省和朔莊省這些地方,你可以發(fā)現(xiàn)長(zhǎng)相像越南人卻認(rèn)為自己是高棉人,以及長(zhǎng)相像柬埔寨人卻認(rèn)為自己是京族越南人的人。
如果你仔細(xì)研究會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn),“越南人”不是一個(gè)種族,而是一個(gè)曾經(jīng)是一群(借用當(dāng)時(shí)的中文術(shù)語(yǔ)是“南?!?民族之間的共享文化,他們逐漸接受了他們的鄰居“京族”文化,從2000年前開始,一直延續(xù)到今天。
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Rather than genes from Vietnam, probably would indicate something like “certain percentage of genes are similar to south east asians”, etc. I know you meant to be just light hearted.
不是來(lái)自越南的基因,可能會(huì)表明“有一定比例的基因與東南亞人相似”,等等。我知道你只是想輕松一下。
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From male side of Genes?
從男性的基因方面?
why talk to dustin nguyen he a chinese vietnamese , that say oh vietnamese propaganda kid to hate china fucking bull shit from a guy that never study in vietnam . funny fact the viet kieu or vietnamese american allway blame vietnamese govt being dog to china cause we dont teach anything bad about th … (more)
為什么要跟姓阮的說(shuō)話,他是個(gè)中國(guó)越南人,他說(shuō)哦,越南宣傳小孩討厭中國(guó),一個(gè)從來(lái)沒有在越南學(xué)習(xí)過的人在胡說(shuō)八道。有趣的事實(shí)是越南人總是指責(zé)越南政府是中國(guó)的狗,因?yàn)槲覀儾唤倘魏尾缓玫臇|西……
What's a idiot response!
這是什么白癡的回答!
love how henry ng never live in vietnam think you know more about our country and the people that live there
lol
henry ng從來(lái)沒有在越南生活過,卻覺得你更了解我們的國(guó)家和生活于此的人民,哈哈哈
That really must be the case. Out of a population of 4 million in Aotearoa/New Zealand, more than half a million admit to having Māori blood. But then European say there are no full blood Māori left because of intermarriage. By simple mathematics, there must be more New Zealanders that have Māori blood, than what is reported. Even twice as many.
真是如此。在新西蘭奧特羅亞400萬(wàn)人口中,有50多萬(wàn)人承認(rèn)有毛利人的血統(tǒng)。但是歐洲人說(shuō),由于異族通婚,這里沒有完整的毛利人血統(tǒng)了。通過簡(jiǎn)單的數(shù)學(xué)計(jì)算,擁有毛利人血統(tǒng)的新西蘭人肯定比報(bào)道的要多。甚至是原來(lái)的兩倍。
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Not that I feel it is important. I suspect Han is an ideal, not a pure race.
漢人已經(jīng)吸收了很多人口,我懷疑是否還有純正的漢人。
我倒不覺得這很重要。
我覺得“漢族”是一個(gè)理想化的種族,而不是一個(gè)純粹的種族。
IMO there is no pure Han. Many believe Han is a catch all ethnicity to those who doesn't belong to known ethnicity. Many nations have this notion of pure bloodline. Chinese has the opposite. We generally believe children of mixed bloodline are smarter and prettier. Even the parents who come from far … (more)
在我看來(lái),沒有純正的漢族人。很多人認(rèn)為漢族是所有不屬于已知種族的人的集合。許多國(guó)家都有純血統(tǒng)的概念,中國(guó)人正好相反。我們普遍認(rèn)為混血兒更聰明、更漂亮。
As usual, you talk without any proofs.
像往常一樣,你說(shuō)話沒有任何證據(jù)。
I am HAN.I can say You are talking about something you have no knowledge
我是漢族人。我可以說(shuō)你在談?wù)撘恍┠悴恢赖氖虑?/b>
I agree. He does not understand nothing.
我同意。他什么也不懂。
Han is neither an ideal nor pure race.
It is a reference to the diverse people from previous states and tribes who lived under the Han Dynasty. It has always been pure mixed-race.
漢族既不是理想化的民族,也不是純粹的民族。
它指的是生活在漢朝治下的、以前曾屬于不同國(guó)家和部落的人。一直以來(lái)都是純混血。
Mixed-race??
混血兒??
mixed blood
混血兒。
回答二
Originally Answered: Are the Vietnamese originally Chinese?
In linguistic, no. We don’t speak Sino-Ti...an language. Our language is part of Mon-Khmer language. So we are not the same.
But, if you are talking about historical contact, yes.
在語(yǔ)言學(xué)上,不是。我們不說(shuō)漢藏語(yǔ)言。我們的語(yǔ)言是孟高棉語(yǔ)的一部分。所以我們不一樣。
但是,如果你談?wù)摰氖菤v史聯(lián)系,是的,我們有。
越南人最初起源于中國(guó)南部,那里有許多部族。南越人(南越人)是與中國(guó)人接觸越來(lái)越多的部族之一。而且,在越南北部,有一群人,叫做交趾人。
我認(rèn)為,早在趙陀來(lái)統(tǒng)治南越王國(guó)之前,交趾人就和南越人有過接觸。然而,由于趙佗是漢人,這引發(fā)了一場(chǎng)從漢人到今天越南北部和中國(guó)南部的大規(guī)模移民潮。異族通婚和種族混合構(gòu)成了今天的越南人。所以,是的,越南人有一點(diǎn)中國(guó)血統(tǒng),只是用不同的語(yǔ)言和不同的身份。
然而,在越南完全從中國(guó)解放出來(lái)的中世紀(jì)時(shí)期,隨著越南人的征服,越南人與其他國(guó)家如占人、高棉人、老撾人、泰人、苗族人的通婚,形成了我們所知道的現(xiàn)代越南人。當(dāng)然,漢人的血液仍然存在。
所以雖然越南人不是中國(guó)人,但他們有部分中國(guó)血統(tǒng)。與越南人最接近的是廣東人,他們居住在香港和廣東。雖然客家人和閩南人的起源源遠(yuǎn)流長(zhǎng)。
回答三
From what I have read, the Kinh ethnic in Vietnam was a creation of a mix of Southern Han, Au+Lac yue, Minyue from Fujian, and Dongyue from Zhejiang. The Kinh means people lived near the capital. From ancient maps, the Southern Han population was mostly concentrated in the capital (Ha Noi) or cities (Hai Phong, Ha Long) in ancient North Vietnam. The Yue also lived in the low land around the Red river delta. If we do a correlation or overlay the two populations together, it is logical that there should be a mixing just like what was happened in QuangXi and QuangDong. Later on, when the Ming dynasty lost to the Manchu, a lots of Southern Han immigrated to Southern Vietnam so there was a mixing there too. Hoi An city, which located in the middle country of Vietnam also has a large Chinese population. The area at the southern tip of Vietnam was once autonomously administrated by the immigrant Ming Chinese population. So Vietnamese do have Chinese blood from Northern through Southern low land Vietnam. But not all Vietnamese have Chinese blood if they live in the mountains, or in a local concentrated areas that have strong ethnic minorities like the Chams, Khmer, etc.
據(jù)我所知,越南的京族是由南方漢族、福建閩粵和浙江東越人混合而成。京族是指住在首都附近的人。從古代地圖上看,南部漢族人口主要集中在越南北部的首都(河內(nèi))或城市(海防,下龍)。越族也居住在紅河三角洲附近的低地。如果我們把這兩個(gè)種群關(guān)聯(lián)起來(lái),或者把它們疊加在一起,這是合乎邏輯的,應(yīng)該會(huì)出現(xiàn)像廣西和廣東那樣的混合。后來(lái),當(dāng)明朝敗給滿族時(shí),大量的南方漢人移民到越南南部,所以那里也發(fā)生了混合。位于越南中部的會(huì)安市也有大量的中國(guó)人。所以從越南北部到南部的低地,越南人都有中國(guó)血統(tǒng)。但并不是所有的越南人都有中國(guó)血統(tǒng),如果他們住在山區(qū),或居住在少數(shù)民族聚居的地方,如占人族、高棉族等。
回答四
Well I seem to remember reading somewhere that after the Han Dynasty's First Invasion of Vietnam, they were determined to assimilate Vietnam, to become "Giao Chi", a province of China, through cultural, and racial assimilation.
嗯,我似乎記得在什么地方讀到過,漢朝第一次“入侵”越南后,他們決定同化越南,通過文化和種族同化,成為古代中國(guó)的一個(gè)省“交趾”。
對(duì)中國(guó)來(lái)說(shuō)不幸的是,他們的努力從來(lái)沒有完全成功,這導(dǎo)致了古代中國(guó)持續(xù)了整整1000年的占領(lǐng)過程。
在整個(gè)占領(lǐng)時(shí)期,大批中國(guó)人被安置在越南,與當(dāng)?shù)貗D女一起繁衍后代,使越南人成為中國(guó)人。
因此,我們可以合理地假設(shè),這是一個(gè)不可否認(rèn)的事實(shí),即許多(如果不是全部的話)京族越南人可能會(huì)有一些中國(guó)血統(tǒng)。
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Besides, in many Vietnamese today, especially the northerners, one can see some similarities in how they look. They might not look completely the same, but neither do Northern and Southern Chinese right?
我們也知道一些越南王朝和王國(guó)的確起源于中國(guó)。南越、黎朝早期、陳朝和何朝都是由中國(guó)南方(長(zhǎng)江下游)的漢族人開創(chuàng)的。
此外,在今天的許多越南人身上,尤其是在北方人身上,你可以看到他們外貌上的一些相似之處。他們可能看起來(lái)不完全一樣,但北方人和南方人也不一樣,對(duì)吧?