如果自戀是一種精神障礙，為什么我們要把自戀者當(dāng)作垃圾來(lái)對(duì)待，而不是幫助他們呢？
If narcissism is a disorder, why do we treat narcissists like garbage instead of helping them?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
網(wǎng)友：如果他們不愿意幫助自己，你就無(wú)法幫助他們。自戀者不會(huì)認(rèn)為有理由去尋求幫助，他們?cè)谧约旱乃枷胫姓J(rèn)為自己是正常的。需要幫助的是你，因?yàn)槟阍谠噲D幫助他們時(shí)抨擊他們并評(píng)判他們......
正文翻譯
If narcissism is a disorder, why do we treat narcissists like garbage instead of helping them?
如果自戀是一種障礙，為什么我們要把自戀者當(dāng)作垃圾來(lái)對(duì)待，而不是幫助他們呢？
評(píng)論翻譯
很贊 ( 0 )
收藏
, Northern-Proto European. Viking. Diagnosed NPD+AvPD
Amber Heard is diagnosed with BPD as primary diagnosis and NPD+ASPD traits as secondary diagnosis from what I recall reading in the court documents during her legal battles with Johnny Depp, her abuse victim.
Johnny Depp as many people in the world thought that if he just loved her enough she would change and turn into a healthy, kind and wonderful being.
He thought that just if he loved her enough he could save her from herself, all he saw was a damsel in distress and not a cunning, calculating predator that was about to engulf and devour him.
Because neurotypical people do not have clinical background in psychology, they dont read the research or study the literature on personality disorders.
Instead they rely on their emotions to guide them, emotions such as love and hope.
Johnny Depp loved her and hoped that if he would just prove to her that he was there for her, then she would change.
That of course did not happen, it never happens if we are talking about an individual with a personality disorder because it is a part of whom they are at their core.
You cant change people. You cant cure personality disorders.
安柏赫德（《海王》女主角），從我記得的在她與約翰尼-德普（她的虐待受害者）打官司期間在法庭文件中讀到的內(nèi)容來(lái)看，她初次被診斷為BPD（邊緣型人格），二次診斷為具有NPD（自戀型人格）+ASPD（反社會(huì)人格）特征。
約翰尼-德普和世界上許多人一樣，認(rèn)為只要他足夠愛(ài)她，她就會(huì)改變，變成一個(gè)健康、善良和美好的人。
他認(rèn)為，只要他足夠愛(ài)她，他就能用自己的手將她拯救出來(lái)，他所看到的只是一個(gè)陷入困境的少女，而不是一個(gè)狡猾的、精打細(xì)算的、即將把他吞噬的掠奪者。
因?yàn)樯窠?jīng)正常的人一般沒(méi)有心理學(xué)方面的臨床背景，他們不會(huì)閱讀關(guān)于人格障礙的研究或研究文獻(xiàn)。
相反，他們依靠自己的情感來(lái)指導(dǎo)自己，如給予愛(ài)和希望等情感。
約翰尼-德普愛(ài)她，希望如果他能向她證明他在她身邊，那么她就會(huì)改變。
這當(dāng)然不會(huì)發(fā)生，如果我們談?wù)摰氖且粋€(gè)有人格障礙的人，這永遠(yuǎn)不會(huì)發(fā)生，因?yàn)檫@就是他們的核心的一部分。
你不可能改變?nèi)恕Ｄ銦o(wú)法治愈人格障礙。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
A romantic partner is a romantic partner, not your patient that you have to save. These roles should never be mixed up. Anytime someone tells you “I cant live without you, if you ever leave me i will end my life” then the first thing you must do is leave, you are being set up for an extremely unhealthy relationship where you will be held emotional hostage and your anxiety levels with spike as the relationship goes on. The person is putting you in an unfair position where you are supposedly the sole source of this persons happiness and will to live. Which means they are severely sick and should not be in a relationship. They need to find purpose in life in themself, not another partner. That brings about a dependency and emotional neediness that their partner cant possible deliver. They need professional help.
另一方面，一個(gè)人（患者）可以在治療的幫助下學(xué)會(huì)以不那么表現(xiàn)出功能障礙的方式行事，但這是有執(zhí)照的、有能力的、在這個(gè)領(lǐng)域有多年學(xué)術(shù)背景的治療師的工作，而不是配偶/愛(ài)人的工作。
浪漫伴侶就是浪漫伴侶，而不是你必須拯救的病人。這些角色永遠(yuǎn)不應(yīng)該被混為一談。任何時(shí)候有人告訴你"我不能沒(méi)有你，如果你離開(kāi)我，我將結(jié)束我的生命"，那么你必須做的第一件事就是離開(kāi)，你被牽扯到了一個(gè)極其不健康的關(guān)系，你將被作為情感的人質(zhì)，你的焦慮水平將隨著關(guān)系的發(fā)展而激增。這個(gè)人把你放在一個(gè)不公平的位置上，“據(jù)說(shuō)”你是這個(gè)人幸福和生活意愿的唯一來(lái)源。這意味著他們有嚴(yán)重的疾病，所以不應(yīng)該與其處在一個(gè)關(guān)系中。他們需要在自己身上找到生活的目標(biāo)，而不是在另一個(gè)伴侶上。這帶來(lái)了他們對(duì)伴侶不可能提供的依賴(lài)性和情感需求。他們需要專(zhuān)業(yè)的幫助。
Even tho I have substancial psychiatric issues , I have never discussed psychology or my mental problems with a partner, because I have a therapist for that.
So basically, all you can do to help them is to support them if they decide to seek help from someone that can actually help them. Dont try to be their primary helper/caregiver, you’re only going to get burned.
As for treating others with garbage, noone should be treated as garbage. Not even criminals.
In Norway our prisons was founded on the american prison system, and we had similar problems with prison gangs, prison violence, drugs and high reincarnation rates (upwards of 75% which is the same in USA today).
The prisoners were treated like garbage, like worms, the correctional officers were there to disrespect the prisoners and to punish them, make them suffer.
你不應(yīng)該在戀愛(ài)關(guān)系中承擔(dān)扶紙上心理學(xué)家的角色。
即使我有實(shí)質(zhì)性的精神問(wèn)題，我也從未與伴侶討論過(guò)心理學(xué)或我的精神問(wèn)題，因?yàn)槲矣幸粋€(gè)治療師負(fù)責(zé)這個(gè)問(wèn)題。
所以基本上，你能幫助他們的就是支持他們，如果他們決定向能夠真正幫助他們的人尋求幫助。不要試圖成為他們的主要幫助者/照顧者，你只會(huì)被燒傷。
至于用對(duì)待垃圾一樣的態(tài)度對(duì)待他人，沒(méi)有人應(yīng)該被當(dāng)作垃圾對(duì)待。即使是罪犯也不行。
在挪威，我們的監(jiān)獄是在美國(guó)監(jiān)獄系統(tǒng)的基礎(chǔ)上建立的，我們也有類(lèi)似的問(wèn)題，如監(jiān)獄幫派、監(jiān)獄暴力、毒品和高再犯率（高達(dá)75%以上，這在今天的美國(guó)也是如此）。
囚犯?jìng)儽划?dāng)作垃圾，像蟲(chóng)子一樣，管教人員在那里不尊重囚犯，懲罰他們，讓他們受苦。
So we realized that something needed to change. We went away from seeing prisons as punishment and instead see it as rehabilitation.
One of those methods was to divert away from the old treatment of treating criminals that garbage of society and instead treat them with dignity, respect, kindness.
And now reincarnation rates have dropped from 75% to a staggering 20–25% and in our super max prison there has been only 1 reported incident of violence since 2014! That’s actually crazy. And we dont have gangs in prisons anymore.
Our prisons is no longer schools for criminals, instead they are place where you can get help to get your life back on the right track, get an education, learn to love yourself and find value in yourself.
不需要天才級(jí)的智商就能意識(shí)到，進(jìn)一步戕害一個(gè)已經(jīng)走在錯(cuò)誤的人生道路上的人，是不會(huì)產(chǎn)生任何積極的結(jié)果的。這就是為什么挪威的監(jiān)獄在2000年之前一直被稱(chēng)為"罪犯的學(xué)校"，進(jìn)入監(jiān)獄的人在出獄后會(huì)更加憤怒，更加不正常，更加傾向于犯罪，一如他們?cè)谶M(jìn)入監(jiān)獄之前的樣子。
因此，我們意識(shí)到，需要改變一些東西。我們不再將監(jiān)獄視為懲罰，而是將其視為康復(fù)。
其中一個(gè)方法是改變過(guò)去把罪犯當(dāng)作社會(huì)垃圾的做法，而是以尊嚴(yán)、尊重和善意對(duì)待他們。
而現(xiàn)在再犯率已經(jīng)從75%下降到驚人的20-25%，而且在我們超級(jí)大的監(jiān)獄里，自2014年以來(lái)只有1起報(bào)告的暴力事件！這實(shí)際上是很瘋狂的。而且我們的監(jiān)獄里不再有幫派了。
我們的監(jiān)獄不再是罪犯的學(xué)校，相反，它們是你可以得到幫助的地方，讓你的生活回到正確的軌道，獲得教育，學(xué)會(huì)愛(ài)自己，找到自己的價(jià)值。
Treating people like garbage = bad, makes the person a worse person.
Treating people with respect and dignity = good, makes the person want to improve themself and work towards betterment.
One example:
I watched a prison documentary about Halden Prison in Norway, where they followed an afro-american inmate. He had immigrated to Norway from USA and was a career criminal involved in drugs and violence.
He told us that all his life he had been in and out of american prisons, everytime he left prison he was worse then when he entered it. Because everyone would always treat him like garbage and not as a human.
That was until he entered a norwegian prison and all the correctional officers befriended him, showered him with belief in him, helped him get an education inside the prison walls, they learned him how to cook and make food.
So he became a professional chef inside the prison. Upon his release he turned his life around 100% and became a productive member of society because he wouldnt want to let down all the officers that believed in him and treated him well.
He started up his own restaurant and has been living a life without crime for 5 years.
So what I am saying here is, try your best to treat others as you want to be treated yourself. If you are kind to others they are more likely to want to be kind to you aswell.
因此，總結(jié)一下:
像對(duì)待垃圾一樣對(duì)待一個(gè)人=不好，會(huì)使一個(gè)人成為更壞的人。
以尊重和尊嚴(yán)待一個(gè)人=好，使這個(gè)人想改善自己，并為改善而努力。
有一個(gè)例子。
我看了一部關(guān)于挪威哈爾登監(jiān)獄的紀(jì)錄片，他們跟蹤了一個(gè)非洲裔美國(guó)人囚犯。他從美國(guó)移民到挪威，是一個(gè)參與毒品和暴力的職業(yè)罪犯。
他告訴我們，他一生都在美國(guó)的監(jiān)獄里進(jìn)進(jìn)出出，每次離開(kāi)監(jiān)獄時(shí)，他都比進(jìn)入監(jiān)獄時(shí)更糟糕。因?yàn)槊總€(gè)人總是把他當(dāng)作垃圾，不把他當(dāng)人看。
直到他進(jìn)入挪威監(jiān)獄，所有的管教人員都與他交好，對(duì)他充滿(mǎn)信心，幫助他在監(jiān)獄里接受教育，他們教他如何烹飪和制作食物。
于是他在監(jiān)獄里成為一名專(zhuān)業(yè)廚師。出獄后，他百分之百地扭轉(zhuǎn)了自己的生活，成為社會(huì)上有生產(chǎn)力的一員，因?yàn)樗幌胱屗邢嘈潘⑸拼墓賳T失望。
他開(kāi)始了自己的餐館，并在5年內(nèi)過(guò)上了沒(méi)有犯罪的生活。
因此，我在這里想說(shuō)的是，盡量以你希望自己被對(duì)待的方式對(duì)待他人。如果你善待他人，他們也更有可能想善待你。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
You cant help anyone if they won't help themselves. A narc will not see a reason for getting help, they are normal in their own minds. Its you that needs help for bashing them and judging them when you try to help.
NPD is a serious disorder that too many are far too uneducated about. The lack of knowledge makes it impossible to see the detrimental effects a single person inflicts on just about anyone who is or was in their life.
Its also really hard for a victim to grasp the concept of the abuse while in its midst. Its even harder to tell anyone exactly what just occurred. Its pretty damn near impossible to belive a full grown adult can do so many heinous deeds without being fully aware and lack the control to stop.
如果他們不愿意幫助自己，你就無(wú)法幫助他們。自戀者不會(huì)認(rèn)為有理由去尋求幫助，他們?cè)谧约旱乃枷胫姓J(rèn)為自己是正常的。需要幫助的是你，因?yàn)槟阍谠噲D幫助他們時(shí)抨擊他們并評(píng)判他們。
NPD是一種嚴(yán)重的疾病，很多人缺乏對(duì)其的教育。知識(shí)的缺乏使得他們無(wú)法看到一個(gè)人對(duì)他們生活中的任何人所造成的有害影響。
受害者也很難在虐待過(guò)程中掌握虐待的概念。它甚至更難告訴別人到底發(fā)生了什么。它幾乎不可能相信一個(gè)成年人會(huì)在沒(méi)有充分意識(shí)到的情況下做這么多令人發(fā)指的事情，而且缺乏控制力來(lái)停止這種做法。
Great and interesting answer Christian. Jonny Depp probably had no idea that Amber had a personality disorder. That’s the trouble, unless you have come across personality disorders before you just don’t know what you are dealing with. If you love someone your love is telling you to give to that person and do your best for them. Unfortunately if they have a PD you often get badly burned.
Good to see you back!
偉大而有趣的回答，克里斯蒂安。約翰尼-德普可能不知道安柏有人格障礙。這就是問(wèn)題所在，除非你以前接觸過(guò)人格障礙，否則你根本不知道自己在面對(duì)什么。如果你愛(ài)一個(gè)人，你的愛(ài)就會(huì)告訴你要為這個(gè)人付出，為他們盡心盡力。不幸的是，如果他們有人格障礙，你往往會(huì)被嚴(yán)重地?zé)齻?br /> 很高興看到你回來(lái)!
Yea that is true. And on top of that, most people have this stereotypical and generalized idea that all women are caring, nurturing and empathic people, so even if the face of opposite evidence they cling to this stereotype. People see what they want to see.
“she’s just a bit lost, but with my love she’ll come around”. It is as you say hard for people to realize that the other person is not who they were thought to be.
Thank you!
是的，沒(méi)錯(cuò)。除此之外，大多數(shù)人都有這樣的刻板印象，即認(rèn)為所有的女性都是有愛(ài)心、有教養(yǎng)、有同情心的人，所以即使面對(duì)相反的證據(jù)，他們還是堅(jiān)持這種刻板印象。人們只想看到他們想看到的東西。
"她只是有點(diǎn)迷失，但在我的愛(ài)下，她會(huì)回心轉(zhuǎn)意的"。正如你所說(shuō)，人們很難意識(shí)到另一個(gè)人其實(shí)不是他們所認(rèn)為的那樣。
謝謝！
That may all be true about Amber, but isn’t it true that Depp has alcohol and possibly drug issues that also lead to his bad behavior at times as well? In other words, they were a doomed couple from the start. If he wasn’t a bit off himself, he would not have chosen her despite her seemingly surface good qualities as he would have more quickly recognized she wasn’t a normal person and fleed the relationship quickly. He may have gotten trauma bonded by her I suppose. That may have led to him not being able to flee sooner.
關(guān)于安柏的說(shuō)法可能都是事實(shí)，但德普不也有著因?yàn)樾锞坪涂赡艿亩酒穯?wèn)題，導(dǎo)致他有時(shí)的不良行為嗎？換句話(huà)說(shuō)，他們從一開(kāi)始就是臭味相投天生一對(duì)。如果他自己不是有點(diǎn)不正常，他就不會(huì)選擇她，盡管她表面上看起來(lái)很好，但是他能很快地認(rèn)識(shí)到她不是一個(gè)正常人，并迅速逃離這段關(guān)系。我想，他可能已經(jīng)被她的創(chuàng)傷束縛住了。這可能導(dǎo)致他不能更早地逃離。
All of Depp’s exes has claimed him to be a sweet and kind soul that would never harm anyone regardless of substance addictions.
All of Amber’s exes says she is violent and manipulative and cruel.
I’ve listened to the audio records of Amber and Depp and there is nothing there that would indicate that Depp had any blame.
All he did was try to run away to safety everytime Amber was beating him mentally or physically.
Amber even said “johnny you cant run away everytime i punch you, you know i have to get it out of my system, stop being a coward, i need this , you cant run away everytime. you are a man you can take it”
德普所有的前任都聲稱(chēng)他是一個(gè)可愛(ài)和善良的靈魂，無(wú)論藥物成癮與否都不會(huì)傷害任何人。
安柏所有的前任都說(shuō)她有暴力傾向，善于操縱人心和殘忍。
我聽(tīng)了安柏和德普的錄音，沒(méi)有任何東西可以表明德普有任何值得責(zé)備的地方。
他所做的只是在每次安柏從精神上或身體上虐待他時(shí)，試圖逃跑到安全地帶。
安柏甚至說(shuō)：“約翰尼，你不能每次我打你都逃跑，你知道我必須把它從我的身體中釋放出來(lái)，不要再做一個(gè)懦夫，我需要這個(gè)，你不能每次都逃跑?！?/b>
Even if his exes said he was great (although PR for him is very helpful as wealthy as he is), but that doesn’t mean he has not become advanced in his state of alcohol drug abuse to the point of not thinking too clearly and his overall mental emotional state is compromised. That is all I am really saying. A mentally healthy person would have left the situation much sooner it seems.
即使他的前任都說(shuō)他很好（雖然可能是他的公關(guān)起了作用，因?yàn)樗芨挥校?，但這并不意味著他酗酒吸毒的狀態(tài)沒(méi)有發(fā)展到讓他無(wú)法思考得太清楚以及讓他的整體精神情緒狀態(tài)受到損害。這就是我真正要說(shuō)的。一個(gè)心理健康的人早就抽身離開(kāi)了。
I stayed for 20 years. It's a total mindf***. And I do not use substances at all. Youa re making judgements based on a situation you have no idea what it is like to be in apparently and that's normal. What I am saying is this happens everyday to people who don't drink or use drugs and they stay alot longer than Depp did.
我在一個(gè)患有此癥的人身邊呆了20年。這完全是一種精神摧殘。而且我根本不沉迷藥物。顯然你正在根據(jù)你不了解的情況做出判斷，這（么做）是很正常的。我想說(shuō)的是，這種情況每天都在發(fā)生在那些不喝酒或不吸毒的人身上，他們比德普呆得更久。
I read those prison studies recently for a paper. Its astonishing what Norway has done. And its a model the world would do well to pay attention to. Unfortunately, in the US, prisons are for profit and make millionaires in a disgusting way. That has to change first.
我最近為一篇論文閱讀了一些關(guān)于監(jiān)獄的研究。挪威所做的一切讓人吃驚。它是世界上一個(gè)值得關(guān)注的模式。不幸的是，在美國(guó)，監(jiān)獄是為了盈利，并以令人作嘔的方式制造百萬(wàn)富翁。這一點(diǎn)必須首先改變。
, Counselor, GNarc's golden kid, NPD/BPD/PTSD experiences
Well, they do often devastate/damage others…financially, physically, mentally/emotionally, etc.
Narcissism is a spectrum. We all carry some amount of narcissism, and some amount is both healthy and necessary. Yes, people who fall on the highest of end of the spectrum are considered to be disordered.
Those with NPD are in great need of help, but they are to be helped by trained mental health professionals. Unless you are a trained mental health professional…please, do not try to help these folks. There will be no light at the end of the tunnel. Your efforts will not be appreciated and you will exhaust yourself.
You cannot help someone who is not truly open to being helped, and those with NPD tend to live in denial and delusion. It may be possible to force someone into therapy (and some with NPD may seek therapy when/if they hit rock bottom), but PDs are notoriously difficult to treat (and therapy can be very expensive).
In addition, the individual with NPD would have to be willing to take a deep dive into him/herself, and may choose to leave therapy for this reason.
Those with NPD often live with additional conditions (i.e. anxiety/depressive disorders, addictions, etc), so some may eventually seek help for these additional conditions. They may fall through the cracks, unless the mental health professional is able to identify PDs.
Sure, I have compassion for those who live with PDs (and would love for those who have PDs to be forced into therapy), but I also understand the ways in which they unintentionally/intentionally hurt others.
I was “parented" by a narcissist and have experienced narcissistic relationships. Do I pity my father? Do I pity the men who I have been romantically involved with? YES. Do I also carry anger? YES. DO I HAVE A REASON TO SPEAK ILL OF NARCISSISTIC HUMAN BEINGS? YES.
因?yàn)樗麄兇_實(shí)經(jīng)常破壞/損害他人......在經(jīng)濟(jì)上、身體上、精神上/情感上，等等。
自戀是一個(gè)光譜。我們都有一定程度的自戀，而這是健康和必要的。是的，只有落在光譜最高處的人被認(rèn)為是紊亂的。
那些有NPD的人非常需要幫助，但他們應(yīng)該由受過(guò)訓(xùn)練的心理健康專(zhuān)家來(lái)幫助。除非你是受過(guò)訓(xùn)練的心理健康專(zhuān)家......否則請(qǐng)不要試圖幫助這些人。隧道的盡頭不會(huì)有光。你的努力不會(huì)得到贊賞，你只會(huì)讓自己筋疲力盡。
你無(wú)法幫助那些不是真正愿意接受幫助的人，而那些有NPD的人往往生活在否認(rèn)和妄想中。 也許有可能強(qiáng)迫某人接受治療（一些有NPD的人可能會(huì)在他們跌入谷底時(shí)尋求治療），但PD是出了名的難以治療（而且治療可能非常昂貴）。
此外，患有NPD的人必須愿意深入了解他/她自己，而他們可能因此選擇遠(yuǎn)離治療。
那些有NPD的人往往生活在其他狀況下（即焦慮/抑郁癥，成癮等），所以有些人最終可能會(huì)尋求對(duì)這些額外狀況的幫助。 除非心理健康專(zhuān)家能夠順帶識(shí)別出PD，否則他們可能只會(huì)落入深淵。
當(dāng)然，我很同情那些患有PD的人（也很希望那些患有PD的人強(qiáng)迫自己去接受治療），但我也理解他們無(wú)意/故意傷害他人的方式。
我被一個(gè)自戀者"養(yǎng)大"，也經(jīng)歷過(guò)自戀的關(guān)系。我憐憫我的父親嗎？我憐憫那些與我有過(guò)戀愛(ài)關(guān)系的男人嗎？是的。我也帶著憤怒嗎？是的。我有理由說(shuō)自戀的人的壞話(huà)嗎？是的。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
, former Counselor/ Support Encouragement at Beside Still Waters
To be honest with you that is a very good question. Based on my experience it is not that we want to treat them like garbage it is that they continuously lie and manipulate us in such a overwhelmingly outlandish way it seems she warrant that kind of reaction. Otherwise if they were to at least take it down a couple of notches and behave normal some of the time. they would not get such a bad rap and people that see it for what it is. And in my opinion narcissism is among the top worst financial condition that actively affect the lives of so many people like an avalanche. Intensity is rarely confronted or even acknowledged everybody just seems to brush it off . they just instinctively except the fact that whoever it is it's just an asshole. Which is sometimes a case however the effects can be lessened. I don't know it just depends on the people around them. if they're surround themselves with weak people then they're going to always have their way and nobody's ever going to say anything however it just takes the one strong willed person to cut that shyte short. My advice, try to be that one person.
老實(shí)說(shuō)，這是個(gè)非常好的問(wèn)題。根據(jù)我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，并不是我們想把他們當(dāng)成垃圾，而是他們不斷地撒謊并以一種極其古怪的方式操縱我們，似乎她值得這種對(duì)待。否則，如果他們至少能降低幾個(gè)檔次，在某些時(shí)候表現(xiàn)得正常一點(diǎn)，他們就不會(huì)得到如此糟糕的評(píng)價(jià)，人們也不會(huì)看到它的本質(zhì)。在我看來(lái)，自戀是最糟糕的狀況之一，像雪崩一樣影響著許多人的生活。人們很少正視甚至承認(rèn)自戀，他們只是本能地認(rèn)為，不管他是誰(shuí)，他就是一個(gè)混蛋罷了。有時(shí)候就是這樣，但其影響可以被減輕。我不知道，這取決于他們周?chē)娜?。如果他們周?chē)际擒浫醯娜?，那么他們就?huì)一直以自己的方式行事，沒(méi)有人能對(duì)此說(shuō)什么，但是只需要一個(gè)意志堅(jiān)強(qiáng)的人，就可以把這種對(duì)周?chē)娜说呐按那闆r縮減。我的建議是，試著成為那個(gè)強(qiáng)硬的人。
, studied Abnormal Psychology
I have heard of very few narcs going to therapy simply bc they don't believe there is anything wrong with them. They do not take responsibility for their actions, they always blame somebody else! I've been studying narcissism in depth for four years daily so apart from being well educated in this spectrum I was also the scapegoat of a covert Narc mother.
They are not garbage, they are far worse than that. In layman's terms they are the devil's spawn and so manipulative and psychotic liars that they can very easily fool anyone, including therapist's and educated psychologists.
In my educated opinion it is a personality disorder that they were either born with or developed in early life. It is so ingrained in their psyche that they cannot change.
我聽(tīng)說(shuō)很少有自戀者去接受治療，因?yàn)樗麄儾幌嘈抛约河惺裁磫?wèn)題。他們不為自己的行為負(fù)責(zé)，他們總是指責(zé)別人！我每天都在深入研究自戀癥，已經(jīng)有四年的時(shí)間了，所以除了在這個(gè)領(lǐng)域受過(guò)良好的教育外，我也是一個(gè)隱蔽的自戀癥母親的受害者。
他們不是垃圾，他們遠(yuǎn)比這更糟糕。說(shuō)白一點(diǎn)，他們是魔鬼的產(chǎn)物，是如此具有操縱性和精神病性的騙子，他們可以非常容易地欺騙任何人，包括治療師和受過(guò)教育的心理學(xué)家。
在我看來(lái)，這是一種要么生來(lái)就有，要么是在早期生活中形成的人格障礙。這在他們的心理上是根深蒂固的，他們無(wú)法改變。
, Too Many to List or Speak Of at Experiences in Life (1978-present)
It’s funny the irony that narcissists do. You’re asking comment blatantly yet vaguely in regards to hoping to somehow manufacture people to hold more grace towards the disorder. We don’t treat them like garbage that’s the perception and if they are treated like garbage it’s after an extended period of time of the receiving of their treatment prior to finally becoming fed up and projecting it back because it’s the only way that you feel this person might understand what they’re doing but they don’t. Therefore, if we treat them shitty it’s because it’s a disorder. It cannot be cured, or even helped for that matter, without admittance and therapy of the ongoing variety. Only the self aware will endeavor and that’s a fraction in my opinion.
自戀者諷刺性的行為很有趣。你明目張膽地詢(xún)問(wèn)大眾的評(píng)論，卻又含糊不清地希望以某種方式制造人們對(duì)這種障礙持有更多的寬容心。我們不把他們當(dāng)作垃圾，這是我們的看法，如果他們被當(dāng)作垃圾，那也是在接受他們很長(zhǎng)一段時(shí)間的對(duì)待后，才最終變得厭煩并把它投射回去，因?yàn)檫@是唯一的方法，你覺(jué)得這個(gè)人（自戀者）可能明白他們?cè)谧鍪裁?，但他們其?shí)并沒(méi)有。因此，如果我們?cè)愀獾貙?duì)待他們，那也是因?yàn)檫@是一種障礙。如果不承認(rèn)并進(jìn)行持續(xù)的治療，它是無(wú)法被治愈的，甚至無(wú)法幫助他們。在我看來(lái)，只有自我意識(shí)到的人才會(huì)進(jìn)行這種努力，而這只是這群人里的一小部分。
, lives in Alabama
because we are trying to warn people to protect themselves, as the average person CANNOT help a narc. if you are a trained therapist you might, but then you’d already know this. the average person can only be abused more and more, not help. i don’t think we treat them like “garbage” but instead tend to get our own lives entwined with theirs before we know it, and we are the ones who will be treated like garbage eventually if we DO try to stay with and/or help them. just because someone has a disorder doesn’t mean we should let it affect us, if there’s nothing we can do for them. just like covid, leprosy, tuberculosis, or the mumps, protection is the goal unless you are a professional.
因?yàn)槲覀冊(cè)噲D警告人們保護(hù)自己，因?yàn)槠胀ㄈ藷o(wú)法幫助自戀者。如果你是一個(gè)訓(xùn)練有素的治療師，你可能可以，但那是你已經(jīng)非常了解這個(gè)了。普通人只會(huì)被虐待得越來(lái)越多，而不是提供幫助。我不認(rèn)為我們把他們當(dāng)作"垃圾"對(duì)待，而是如果在我們意識(shí)到之前就把我們自己的生活與他們的生活糾纏在一起，如果我們真的試圖與他們呆在一起和/或幫助他們，我們最終會(huì)被當(dāng)作垃圾對(duì)待。僅僅因?yàn)槟橙嘶加屑膊〔⒉灰馕吨覀儜?yīng)該讓它影響到我們，如果我們不能為他們做些什么的話(huà)。就像新冠肺炎、麻風(fēng)病、結(jié)核病或腮腺炎一樣，保護(hù)自己才你的目標(biāo)，除非你是專(zhuān)業(yè)人士。