自然免疫好還是接種疫苗好?為什么?
Is natural immunity or vaccination better? Why?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
兩者并不是相互排斥的，你明白嗎?許多人似乎不明白的是，疫苗是用來(lái)觸發(fā)你的自然免疫力的。
正文翻譯
Is natural immunity or vaccination better? Why?
自然免疫好還是接種疫苗好?為什么?
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These aren’t mutually exclusive… you get that right? What many people don’t seem to understand is that vaccinations are used to trigger your natural immunity.
Vaccines are simply designed to do this in the safest possible way since vaccines either don’t contain any live virus, or they contain a greatly weakened strain that is easy for your body to overcome (but both options train your body to create the antibodies needed).
The Black Plague is also still active.
When discussing the possibility of contracting a serious venereal disease, which is better? Natural immunity? …or using condoms? Most people (even anti-vaxxers) will immediately admit that condoms are the best method.
It’s weird.People really don’t like the idea of their junk possibly falling the f#ck off or turning into a festering fetid odiferous swamp. They understand that condoms are not 100% effective, but accept the idea that having an imperfect barrier is better than no barrier at all.
But when you relate this to vaccines, (take COVID as an example) people are completely blase about having their lungs fill up with fluid until they can’t breathe while they choke their way to a nasty and mostly oxygen-free death. It’s just a pity that anti-vaxxers take innocent bystanders with them as they fall.
兩者并不是相互排斥的，你明白嗎?許多人似乎不明白的是，疫苗是用來(lái)觸發(fā)你的自然免疫力的。
疫苗只是以最安全的方式設(shè)計(jì)來(lái)做到這一點(diǎn)，因?yàn)橐呙缫词遣缓魏位钚圆《?，要么是含有非常脆弱的毒株，使得很容易讓你的身體克服它(但這兩種選擇都能訓(xùn)練你的身體產(chǎn)生所需的抗體)。
黑死病依然活著
在討論感染嚴(yán)重性病的可能性時(shí)，哪個(gè)更好?自然免疫力?還是使用避孕套?大多數(shù)人(甚至是反對(duì)接種疫苗的人)會(huì)立即承認(rèn)安全套是最好的方法。
這太奇怪了。
人們真的不喜歡他們的那個(gè)玩意兒可能掉下來(lái)或變成一坨潰爛惡臭的爛肉的想法。
他們明白避孕套并不是100%有效的，但接受有一個(gè)不完美的屏障總比沒(méi)有屏障好的觀點(diǎn)。
但當(dāng)你把這與疫苗聯(lián)系在一起時(shí)，(以新冠肺炎為例)人們卻對(duì)肺部充滿液體直到無(wú)法呼吸感到非常厭倦。
只是遺憾的是，反疫苗者在他們倒下的時(shí)候帶走了無(wú)辜的旁觀者。
It’s weird, but there are plenty of conspiracy theorists in Africa who refuse to use condoms because of conspiracy theory rubbish even though it’s demonstrated over and over again to be the best way to prevent AIDS. Among the saner claims is that condoms make men infertile - kinda hard to argue with that, since if you use condoms you shouldn’t be getting anyone pregnant.
But most of the other arguments are just nuts. Arguments like “Condoms were invented by white people to reduce the number of Africans!” and things like that. Of course, the fact that this directly contradicts the “AIDS was invented by white people to reduce the number of Africans!” is ignored, in exactly the same way as every conspiracy theory ignores its own contradictory elements. The whole thing is very, very similar to the anti-vaxxer, anti-mask, anti-lockdown garbage being spread around these days.
It just goes to show, imaginative stupidity is universal and timeless.
奇怪的是，在非洲也有很多陰謀論者拒絕使用避孕套，盡管它一次又一次被證明是預(yù)防艾滋病的最好方法。比較理智的說(shuō)法是，避孕套會(huì)讓男性不孕——這一點(diǎn)很難反駁，因?yàn)槿绻闶褂帽茉刑?，你就不?yīng)該讓任何人懷孕。
但除此之外，大多數(shù)爭(zhēng)論都是瘋狂的。諸如“避孕套是白人發(fā)明的，目的是為了減少非洲人的數(shù)量!”諸如此類的事情。但顯然，“艾滋病是白人為了減少非洲人的數(shù)量而發(fā)明的!”被忽略了。就像每一個(gè)陰謀論都忽略了它自身的矛盾因素一樣。整個(gè)事情非常非常相似，反疫苗，反口罩，反隔離這類垃圾觀點(diǎn)這些天四處傳播。
這恰恰表明，富有想象力的愚蠢是普遍的，永恒的。
The Black Plague didn't even disappear. It's usually called bubonic plague and it still exists and is spread by rodents. We can manage it better now because it's bacterial and is treated with antibiotics. But it's still dangerous and deadly if untreated.
The Black Plague would kill off all the people in a town or village and then die off in that location after running out of hosts. But it still existed in other places. It was called the Black Plague because in its septicemic form can cause bleeding under the skin and the blood collecting under the skin would make the skin appear black. In it's pneumonic form it can be spread airborne. A truly horrible disease.
黑死病根本沒(méi)有消失。它通常被稱為腺鼠疫，現(xiàn)在仍然存在，由嚙齒動(dòng)物傳播。我們現(xiàn)在可以更好地處理它，因?yàn)樗羌?xì)菌，用抗生素治療。但如果不治療，它仍然是危險(xiǎn)和致命的。
黑死病會(huì)殺死一座城鎮(zhèn)或村莊里的所有人，然后在宿主耗盡后在那個(gè)地方死亡。但它仍然存在于其他地方。它被稱為黑死病，因?yàn)閿⊙Y會(huì)導(dǎo)致皮膚下出血，皮膚下的血液聚集會(huì)使皮膚看起來(lái)黑色。在肺炎形式下，它可以通過(guò)空氣傳播。
這是一種可怕的疾病。
What I don't get, is that a lot of the disinformation is being spruiked by people who aren't doctors, virologists or medical sciencey at all. How do so many people think they know more than DOCTORS or SCIENTISTS who have studied these exact things? I have no reason to think I would know even a bees dick of the stuff these people know. And you trust them when they prescribe say, the pill, or antibiotics, or insulin. Why, all of a sudden, is this the thing people think they are more knowledgeable than actual professionals? It's really fucking weird to me.
我不明白的是，很多虛假信息是由那些根本不是醫(yī)生、病毒學(xué)家或醫(yī)學(xué)科學(xué)家的人煽動(dòng)的。為什么這么多人認(rèn)為他們知道的比研究這些事情的醫(yī)生或科學(xué)家多?……
為什么突然之間，人們會(huì)認(rèn)為自己比真正的專業(yè)人士更有知識(shí)?這對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)真的很奇怪。
As a former radiographer I heartily second every word in your post. If people could only see what x-rays of fluid-filled lungs look like as well as the impact on the person's breathing capability they would follow medical advice and not political blathering.
Politicians like Texas' Abbott and Florida's DeSantis (DeathSantis is a better moniker) have no interest in the welfare of their constituents only how does their stand enthrall their base.
Covid doesn't care about politics as it only cares about its next opportunity to mutate and carry on in a world where common sense has to pass a litmus test of ideological purity.
People talk about going back to normal not realizing this is the new normal and we best pay attention else it's going to get a lot worse.
作為一名前放射技師，我由衷地贊同你帖子中的每一個(gè)字。如果人們能看到充滿液體的肺部的x光片是什么樣子，以及它對(duì)人的呼吸能力的影響，他們就會(huì)聽從醫(yī)療建議，而不是政治廢話。
像德克薩斯州的阿伯特和佛羅里達(dá)州的德桑提斯這樣的政客對(duì)選民的福利毫無(wú)興趣，他們只關(guān)心自己的立場(chǎng)如何吸引他們的基礎(chǔ)選民。
新冠病毒不關(guān)心政治，它只關(guān)心在常識(shí)必須通過(guò)意識(shí)形態(tài)純潔性檢驗(yàn)的世界里，它的下一個(gè)變異和繼續(xù)發(fā)展的機(jī)會(huì)。
人們談?wù)摶貧w正常生活，卻沒(méi)有意識(shí)到這是新常態(tài)，我們最好注意，否則情況會(huì)變得更糟。
Immunity that is aquired by infection with an actual disease sometimes last longer than a vaccine version.
But it also requires you contract the disease. With polio, that means risking paralysis. Measles can do damage to one’s entire immune system, wiping out immunities one had previously earned. It can also cause brain damage. HPV can cause cancer.
So, it depends on how you are definiing “better”.
通過(guò)感染一種真正的疾病而獲得的免疫力有時(shí)比疫苗的免疫力持續(xù)的時(shí)間更長(zhǎng)。
但這也需要你感染疾病。對(duì)于小兒麻痹癥患者來(lái)說(shuō)，這意味著有癱瘓的危險(xiǎn)。麻疹會(huì)對(duì)人的整個(gè)免疫系統(tǒng)造成損害，摧毀人以前獲得的免疫系統(tǒng)。它還會(huì)導(dǎo)致大腦損傷。HPV（人類乳頭瘤病毒）會(huì)導(dǎo)致癌癥。
所以，這取決于你如何定義“更好”。
“It’s just a pity that anti-vaxxers take innocent bystanders with them as they fall.”
It really is because otherwise, I’d cheer these dolts on.
“只是遺憾的是，反疫苗者在他們倒下的時(shí)候帶走了無(wú)辜的旁觀者?！?br /> 真的，不然的話，我會(huì)為這些笨蛋加油的。
This is why I favor the use of electronic, crypto-protected/verified vaccine ‘passports’. Government would use it in limited circumstances, like air travel and some other situations, and yes that is coercion (before somebody starts screamin’ about that…).
But mostly it would be a trusted, standardized document that event venues and businesses and schools and services could use to protect their employees and their patrons/clients/customers. And that would be voluntary. Or, at least it would be as voluntary as can be, on the part of the business owner, with one’s insurers and lawyers breathing down one’s neck about liability and rate increases or even non-insurability if one doesn’t screen the denizens of the cesspool from entering one’s establishment.
Hospitals, daycares, barber shops and salons, restaurants, physio/massage clinics and chiros, sports venues, people wanting vaccinated workers to repair their plumbing or install their new windows or their new kitchen-and-vanity countertops, or personal support workers coming into homes or working at LTC facilities… and the list goes on… any situation where somebody is breathing the same air in close quarters.
這就是為什么我贊成使用電子的、加密保護(hù)的/經(jīng)過(guò)驗(yàn)證的疫苗“護(hù)照”。政府會(huì)在有限的情況下使用它，比如航空旅行和其他一些情況，是的，這是強(qiáng)制性的。
但最重要的是，它將是一份可信的、標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化的文件，供活動(dòng)場(chǎng)所、企業(yè)、學(xué)校和服務(wù)機(jī)構(gòu)使用，以保護(hù)他們的員工、顧客/客戶?！?br /> 醫(yī)院、日托所、理發(fā)店和沙龍、餐館、理療/按摩診所、運(yùn)動(dòng)場(chǎng)所……人們希望接種疫苗的工作人員來(lái)修理他們的管道或安裝他們的新窗戶。因?yàn)樗腥嗽谟邢薜木嚯x里，都呼吸著同一片空氣。
They’re the “same immunity”, but “natural immunity”, meang that you got the disease, can kill you, vaccinations can’t. (And with COVID, vaccination immunity, with the proper number of boosters - which we don’t know yet - seems to confer longer-lasting immunity.)
它們是一樣的，但是“自然免疫”，意味著你得了疾病，它可以殺死你，接種疫苗不會(huì)。
(至于新冠病毒，疫苗免疫，加上別的輔助措施——我們還不知道——似乎能帶來(lái)更持久的免疫力。)
While your right the disease can kill you, with only a survival rate of 99.9% if your healthy, the vaccines can also kill you or give you blood clots, or myorcarditis, or perocarditis, paralysis, severe long term pain etc. One study out of Japan listed natural immunity to be as much as 27 times stronger than the vaccinated at 6 months. I for one had Covid apparently in March of 2020. Never had a symptom. I have had 2 antibody tests since, the last just 3 months ago, the other 8 months prior. Per my doctor my antibody levels are at similiar levels which he said per the numbers were outstanding after the 8 month seperation let alone the suspected infection in March of 2020.
As for being the same immunity it’s not exactly correct. The vaccine immunity seems to be more targeted by to a specific part of the virus protein vs. the natural immunity seems to be a more widely spread in it’s ability to recognize the virus. Also depending on your immune system, natural immunity seems to last longer.
是啊，你說(shuō)得對(duì)。這種疾病可以殺死你，如果你是健康的，存活率“只”有99.9%。疫苗也可以殺死你或使你血栓、心肌炎、心包炎，癱瘓，嚴(yán)重的長(zhǎng)期疼痛等。日本的一項(xiàng)研究表明，在6個(gè)月時(shí)，自然免疫力比接種疫苗強(qiáng)27倍。我在2020年3月感染了新冠病毒。從沒(méi)出現(xiàn)過(guò)癥狀，從那以后我做了兩次抗體測(cè)試，最后一次是3個(gè)月前，另外一次是8個(gè)月前。據(jù)我的醫(yī)生說(shuō)，我的抗體水平接近這一水平，他說(shuō)，在8個(gè)月的隔離后，這些數(shù)字很驚人，更不用說(shuō)2020年3月的疑似感染了。
至于兩者的免疫效果是否一樣也不確定。疫苗的免疫似乎更容易針對(duì)病毒蛋白質(zhì)的特定部分，而自然免疫似乎更加廣泛，并且可以識(shí)別病毒。自然免疫似乎持續(xù)時(shí)間更長(zhǎng)，當(dāng)然這也取決于你的免疫系統(tǒng)。
Blood clots appear to be a) a problem with only a single class of COVID vaccine and b) applicable to only women of childbearing age. mRNA vaccines don’t cause clots.
The incidence of death caused by COVID vaccine is, so far, 0.000%. The incidence of death after having received the vaccine is higher. But so is the incidence of being hit by a city buss after having been vaccinated. Does the vaccine attract city buses? (IOW, try to separate correlation from causation.)
More than one study has found “natural immunity” wearing off a lot sooner than 6 months. Try to fact-check your sources.
COVID can give you myorcarditis, perocarditis, paralysis, severe long term pain, severe long-term respiratory deficit, severe muscle damage all over the body … and severe agony before the inevitable death. That’s been the case in almost 100% of COVID deaths. And vaccine-caused long-term problems? About 0%. (Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy, not an argument.)
Vaccine immunity will soon confer immunity against Delta and Mu. Natural immunity, unless you get hit with at least 3 variants, won’t.
Bottom line - you have no “right to infect”. You have no “right to kill”. But the government does have the right to force you to be vaccinated (by at least two Supreme Court decisions that have never even been questioned). Forced total quarantine has also been legal for at least 70 years. You (generically, not personally) don’t want to be vaccinated? No problem. Just call when you’re ready to be, because you don’t get to open an external door or window in your house until you do.
1.血栓似乎是因?yàn)? a)個(gè)別疫苗的問(wèn)題；b)只出現(xiàn)于育齡婦女中；mRNA疫苗不會(huì)引起血栓。
2. 到目前為止，新冠疫苗導(dǎo)致的死亡發(fā)生率為0.000%。事故死亡率比接種疫苗的死亡率更高。換句話說(shuō)，被公交車撞死的概率都比接種疫苗高。
3. 不止一項(xiàng)研究發(fā)現(xiàn)，“天然免疫力”在6個(gè)月內(nèi)就會(huì)消失。試著對(duì)你的消息來(lái)源進(jìn)行事實(shí)核查。
4. “疫苗也可以殺死你或使你血栓、心肌炎、心包炎，癱瘓，嚴(yán)重的長(zhǎng)期疼痛等……”
幾乎所有新冠肺炎死亡病例都有這些癥狀。至于疫苗引起的長(zhǎng)期問(wèn)題，約等于0%。
5. 疫苗免疫將很快賦予對(duì)德爾塔和穆（Mu）的免疫。而自然免疫，除非你被至少三種變體攻擊，否則不會(huì)。
6.底線在于——你沒(méi)有“感染的權(quán)利”，你沒(méi)有“殺人的權(quán)利”。但是政府確實(shí)有權(quán)強(qiáng)迫你接種疫苗(至少有兩項(xiàng)最高法院的判決從未被質(zhì)疑過(guò))。強(qiáng)制全面隔離至少70年來(lái)也是合法的。你不想接種疫苗?沒(méi)有問(wèn)題。等你準(zhǔn)備好了再說(shuō)吧，因?yàn)樵谀銣?zhǔn)備好之前你是無(wú)法打開外面的門或窗戶的。
I applaud your efforts, Al. Perhaps someone will read your words and learn something. Unfortunately, it’s pretty obvious the conspiracy floggers won’t listen.
為你的努力鼓掌。也許有人會(huì)讀你的話并從中學(xué)到一些東西。
但不幸的是，那些陰謀論者是不會(huì)聽的。
Oh, I don’t expect them to. But after - what’s it been, 4 weeks of fighting my way out of a breakthrough - if they all want to die of COVID, and take their kids with them, I have no problem.
我沒(méi)指望他們會(huì)。但經(jīng)過(guò)了4周的努力，終于取得了突破。如果他們都想死于新冠肺炎，并帶走他們的孩子，我沒(méi)有問(wèn)題。
Vaccines use the same immune system that the actua pathogens trigger. There aren’t likely enough differences for 10x difference. One difference is that vaccine immunity all triggers off of the characteristics in the vaccine, while natural immunity can trigger off any characteristics in the virus. The parts chosen when making the vaccine are chosen for strength of reaction, and may have less longevity.
疫苗激活的免疫系統(tǒng)與致病菌激活的免疫系統(tǒng)相同。不太可能有10倍的差異。
不同之處在于，疫苗免疫都是由疫苗的特性觸發(fā)的，而自然免疫可以由病毒的任何特性觸發(fā)。
制作疫苗時(shí)選擇的部分是根據(jù)反應(yīng)強(qiáng)度而選擇的，可能沒(méi)那么持久。
Is natural immunity 10x better than vaccination immunity?
Generally natural immunity, rather than training your immune system with a vaccine, is less effective. For example, in a third of COVID infections humans don’t produce any antibodies and thus gain no defense against COVID-19, while natural immunity lasts less time than vaccination’s immunity. For details, please see:
Natural immunity also comes with a lot of other drawbacks. Typically, you need to get sick, potentially very sick, to gain resistance to a virus. Smallpox infections gave immunity but the infections were usually miserable and very life-threatening. Chickenpox infections give immunity but can also lead to shingles later in life. You don’t have those problems with the vaccines for smallpox and chickenpox.
“天然免疫是否比疫苗免疫好10倍?”
一般來(lái)說(shuō)，自然免疫比用疫苗訓(xùn)練你的免疫系統(tǒng)更低效。例如，在三分之一的新冠感染中，人類不會(huì)產(chǎn)生任何抗體，因此無(wú)法抵御新冠病毒，并且自然免疫比疫苗免疫持續(xù)時(shí)間短。詳情請(qǐng)參閱:
鏈接略
自然免疫也伴隨著許多其他缺點(diǎn)。通常情況下，你需要生病，可能病得很嚴(yán)重，才能獲得對(duì)病毒的抵抗力。天花感染能產(chǎn)生免疫力，但感染通常是痛苦的，危及生命。水痘感染會(huì)產(chǎn)生免疫力，但也會(huì)在以后的生活中導(dǎo)致帶狀皰疹。天花和水痘疫苗沒(méi)有這些問(wèn)題。