“不受控制的移民”在英國(guó)是一個(gè)真正的問題嗎?

Claire Jordan
The trouble with uncontrolled immigration to the UK is that unlike the US, we expect to be able to provide everybody with a good standard of living including free at point of use healthcare. If people come in slowly then however many there are the infrastructure adjusts to keep up with them - more people means more consumers means more jobs done by them and to cater to them means more taxes paid means more money to expand the schools and hospitals necessary to care for them. But it takes several years to build new wards and operating theatres and classrooms and train the staff to operate them, so if a lot of people arrive all at once there’s a risk they’ll crash the system.

英國(guó)在不受控移民這個(gè)問題上，是與美國(guó)不同的，我們是希望能給他們每個(gè)人都提供好的生活標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，包括免費(fèi)的醫(yī)療保健。如果移民進(jìn)來的很慢，那么不管有多少人，基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施都會(huì)跟上他們的步伐，更多的人意味著更多的消費(fèi)者，意味著他們需要更多的工作崗位，意味著要繳納更多的稅款，也意味著需要更多的錢來擴(kuò)建照顧他們所必需的學(xué)校和醫(yī)院。但是，建造新的病房、手術(shù)室和教室，以及培訓(xùn)工作人員如何操作這些設(shè)施，都需要數(shù)年時(shí)間。因此，如果很多人同時(shí)到來，就有可能導(dǎo)致系統(tǒng)崩潰。

Profile photo for Stephen Hill
Question 1;
How many people are here from the newest members of the EU, Bulgaria and Rumania?
According to the last census there are 101,000 Rumanians (there are 106,000 from China) and 57,000 Bulgarians in Britain. This compares to 304,000 Germans, 217,000 Americans and 209,000 South Africans, and the most, 749,000 from India. In the period between the last two cencuses 140,000 Irish immigrants left Britain, slightly less than the total number of Bulgarians and Rumanians who arrived.
Question 2;
How does this compare with Brish migration?
761,000 Britons live in Spain. The BBC estimates that 5.5 million Britons live abroad, just under 10% of the total population, whilst (2011 census again) the total number of immigrants comes to 11.9 per cent of the total population, of which 2.24 million were born in the EU, 3.6% of the total population.

問題一：
移民里有多少人來自歐盟的新成員國(guó)保加利亞和羅馬尼亞?
根據(jù)最近的人口普查，在英國(guó)有101,000名羅馬尼亞人(106,000名中國(guó)人)和57,000名保加利亞人。相比之下，德國(guó)人有30.4萬，美國(guó)人有21.7萬，南非人有20.9萬，印度人最多，有74.9萬。在前兩次人口普查期間，14萬愛爾蘭移民離開英國(guó)，略低于抵達(dá)英國(guó)的保加利亞人和羅馬尼亞人的總?cè)藬?shù)。
問題二：
這與英國(guó)移民相比如何?
76.1萬英國(guó)人居住在西班牙。英國(guó)廣播公司估計(jì)，550萬英國(guó)人生活在國(guó)外，不到總?cè)丝诘?0%，而外來移民總數(shù)達(dá)到總?cè)丝诘?1.9%，其中224萬出生于歐盟，占總?cè)丝诘?.6%。

Question 3;
What effect do EU migrants have on the British economy? Specifically are they a burden by making use of the benefit system and public services?
Immigrants from the new EU countries from 2004 make a net contribution of 5 billion to the treasury, use of public services and state benefits included,the total net figure for all EU immigrants being 20 billion. This contribution compares very favourably to non EU immigration, and to native Britons as well, who both cost the treasury to a greater or leser extent. (see report below for details).
Conclusion;
Highlighting the number of Rumanian and Bulgarian migrants does not conform with the results of the last census.
The net financial contribution of people from EU countries, including those from Eastern Europe, is very positive, unlike native born Britons and non-EU migrants, who are a net cost to the treasury.
Rather than putting a strain on our public services and benefit system, EU migrants help us pay for them.
As to benefit tourism from the EU, there is no factual basis for holding such a view. It is in fact a non-issue.

問題三：
歐盟移民對(duì)英國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)有什么影響?具體來說，他們是福利制度和公共服務(wù)的負(fù)擔(dān)嗎?
從2004年開始，來自新歐盟國(guó)家的移民對(duì)財(cái)政的凈貢獻(xiàn)為50億英鎊，其中包括公共服務(wù)和國(guó)家福利的使用，所有歐盟移民的凈貢獻(xiàn)總數(shù)為200億英鎊。與非歐盟移民和本土英國(guó)人相比，這一貢獻(xiàn)非常有利，非歐盟移民和英國(guó)人或多或少地花了國(guó)庫的錢。
總結(jié)：
強(qiáng)調(diào)羅馬尼亞和保加利亞移徙者的人數(shù)不符合上次人口普查的結(jié)果。來自歐盟國(guó)家(包括東歐國(guó)家)的人的凈財(cái)政貢獻(xiàn)是非常積極的，不像英國(guó)本土出生的人和非歐盟移民，他們是財(cái)政的凈成本。
歐盟移民并沒有給我們的公共服務(wù)和福利體系帶來壓力，而是幫助我們支付這些費(fèi)用。
至于歐盟對(duì)旅游業(yè)的好處，這種觀點(diǎn)是沒有事實(shí)根據(jù)的。事實(shí)上，這不是一個(gè)問題。

Charles Stuart
I vote Conservative but I'm not really too concerned about immigration. Yes, there are a lot of immigrants in the UK but they generate much more wealth than they consume. I can understand concerns about too many people coming here with cultural values that are too far removed from the native inhabitants'. However, I think that immigrant population usually get assimilated and in a hundred years' time they'll be as British as the rest of us.
It's hard to stop immigration. It's happened many times throughout history. The simple fact is that people migrate to where they think life is going to be better. In my opinion, the best approach is one of accommodation, rather than one of trying to isolate the country from a worldwide phenomenon. I think that immigration is an issue for the ordinary person because of fear of the unknown. However, I think that the right political approach would be to try and calm these fears rather than to try and prevent something that can't be prevented.

我投票給保守黨，但我真的不太關(guān)心移民問題。是的，英國(guó)有很多移民，但他們創(chuàng)造的財(cái)富遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)多于他們消費(fèi)的財(cái)富。我能理解很多人的擔(dān)憂，他們帶來到這里的文化價(jià)值觀與當(dāng)?shù)鼐用竦奈幕瘍r(jià)值觀相差太遠(yuǎn)。然而，我認(rèn)為移民人口通常會(huì)被同化，一百年后他們會(huì)和我們一樣成為英國(guó)人。
阻止移民是很難的。這在歷史上發(fā)生過很多次。一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單的事實(shí)是，人們會(huì)遷移到他們認(rèn)為生活將會(huì)更好的地方。在我看來，最好的辦法是適應(yīng)，而不是試圖把這個(gè)國(guó)家從這個(gè)世界現(xiàn)象中孤立出來。我認(rèn)為移民是一個(gè)普通人都會(huì)在意的議題，因?yàn)閷?duì)未知的恐懼。然而，我認(rèn)為正確的方法應(yīng)該是試圖平息這些恐懼，而不是試圖阻止無法阻止的事情發(fā)生。

Gavin Ruddy
Rather than repeat some of the excellent answers to this question, I'll just add a quick point from a slightly different perspective; actually, I'd quite like my kids to have wider horizons and grow up in a less restricted world than I did. I'd like them to be free to get an education or to live and work in other (hopefully) peaceful, civilised and prosperous EU countries if that's what they want to do. This is the freedom on the flip side of the "uncontrolled immigration" we're hearing so much about.

我不會(huì)重復(fù)這個(gè)問題的一些優(yōu)秀答案，我只是從一個(gè)稍微不同的角度添加一個(gè)觀點(diǎn);事實(shí)上，我非常希望我的孩子有更廣闊的視野，在一個(gè)比我更少限制的世界中成長(zhǎng)。我希望他們能夠自由接受教育，或者在其他和平、文明和繁榮的歐盟國(guó)家生活和工作，如果這是他們想要的話。這是我們經(jīng)常聽到的“不受控制的移民”的另一面的自由。

Shanky Shah
I dont know about xenophobia. But I find sometimes the EU policies are pretty xenophobic itself. I mean why do you allow europeans to freely enter in UK while do not allow others? Just because europeans are whites and others like asians and africans are black?? Isn't that racist itself??
Being immigrnt from outside EU, I had seen some worst examples. Now the open door policy had put a cap on immigration from outside EU.
I had seen that some asians and african immigrants, with skillset being turned down by UK to work in UK. While, from EU even people with no skill whatsoever can enter UK without any trouble. Although, with the open market of these days. I guess, if you are skilled person , you can find some other countries can welcome you with open arms. But for UK, it will be hurting.
I think, the policy where all immigrants in UK are treated equally will be beneficial to all.

我不了解仇外心理。但我發(fā)現(xiàn)，有時(shí)候歐盟政策本身就相當(dāng)排外。我的意思是，為什么你們?cè)试S歐洲人自由進(jìn)入英國(guó)，而不允許其他人進(jìn)入?僅僅因?yàn)闅W洲人是白人，而亞洲人和非洲人是黑人?這本身不就是種族歧視嗎?作為來自歐盟以外的移民，我曾見過一些最糟糕的例子?，F(xiàn)在，開放政策對(duì)來自歐盟以外的移民設(shè)置了上限。我看到一些有技能的亞洲和非洲移民被拒絕在英國(guó)工作。而沒有任何技能的歐盟人卻可以毫無困難地進(jìn)入英國(guó)。不過，現(xiàn)在市場(chǎng)開放了。我想，如果你是技術(shù)人員，你會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)其他一些國(guó)家會(huì)張開雙臂歡迎你。但對(duì)英國(guó)來說，這將是一種傷害。我認(rèn)為，英國(guó)所有移民都被平等對(duì)待的政策將使所有人受益。

Profile photo for Paul M Calvert
It's good for the gene pool, fills skills gaps and can help with an ageing population.
Uncontrolled immigration, definitely not a good thing. Drives down wages and work opportunities for the low skilled, puts pressure on social services, hospitals, schools, infrastructure etc.

移民對(duì)基因庫有好處，可以填補(bǔ)技能缺口，還可以幫助解決人口老齡化問題。
但不受控制的移民，絕對(duì)不是一件好事。他們壓低了低技能工人的工資和工作機(jī)會(huì)，對(duì)社會(huì)服務(wù)、醫(yī)院、學(xué)校、基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施等造成壓力。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Bob Gartside
The really interesting question is why immigration into Britain constantly increases while the apparent prosperity of the country goes down;

真正有趣的問題是，為什么移民到英國(guó)的人數(shù)不斷增加，而這個(gè)國(guó)家的表面繁榮卻在下降。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Mark Errington
It is not an issue at all. There are strict immigration controls for those outside the EU, and have been for decades. We have never signed up to the Schengen Agreement, so people coming from outside the EU who have managed to get into a Schengen country have no entitlement to come here.
Without immigration from the EU the NHS and care systems would cease to function overnight, and no-one in London could find a plumber. They also contribute massively more than they cost the country.
If anyone starts making speeches or writing leader articles about uncontrolled immigration you should ask what they are trying to gain from making fallacious statements that are inherently xenophobic and are solely intended to worry the gullible masses into voting for what is an extreme right wing position.
There is no ‘genuine concern’ about this, only rabble rousing political opportunists like Nigel Farage and neo-fascist newspaper editors, like Paul Dacre.
We have many problems of our own making, such as an incredibly unbalanced economy and a housing crisis, that have nothing to do with immigration. Lets deal with those problems and forget about immigration. It really is not a problem.

這根本不是問題。我們對(duì)于歐盟以外的國(guó)家，幾十年來都有嚴(yán)格的移民控制。我們從未簽署過申根協(xié)議（譯注：一項(xiàng)取消歐盟國(guó)家之間邊境檢查的協(xié)議），所以來自歐盟以外國(guó)家的人，如果成功進(jìn)入申根國(guó)家，也沒有權(quán)利來到這里。如果沒有來自歐盟的移民，英國(guó)國(guó)家醫(yī)療服務(wù)體系和醫(yī)療保健系統(tǒng)將在一夜之間停止運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)，倫敦也沒有人能找到水管工。他們的貢獻(xiàn)也大大超過了國(guó)家在他們身上的花費(fèi)。如果有人開始發(fā)表演講或撰寫有關(guān)不受控制的移民的文章，你應(yīng)該問問他們，他們?cè)噲D從這些本質(zhì)上排外的謬論中獲得什么，這些謬論只是為了讓容易上當(dāng)?shù)拇蟊姄?dān)心，讓他們投票支持極端右翼的立場(chǎng)。

James C Stanley
We, the British are NOT against immigration! Historically, we have welcomed the men of many Nations into our Navy. For generations our shores have been a safe haven for those suffering persecution, religious, political or cultural, and Brexit will not change this. We welcome overseas students into our Universities to learn. Post war it was said that London Transport was saved by immigration from the Bahamas, indeed, I understand that this was the reason for the Windrush Generation coming here, so, we are not against immigration. what we are against are the freeloaders, those who come here, not to work, and be a part of our society, but who wish to live off the fat of our land. Why else would there be such an influx of illegal immigrants, except to take advantage of our generous nature? Once here, even the legal incomers will take advantage, and seek to bring their family here, not just their parents, wife and kids, but everyone to their third cousin twice removed and their family as well!

我們英國(guó)人并不反對(duì)移民!歷史上，我們歡迎許多國(guó)家的人加入我們的海軍。幾代人以來，我們的海岸一直是那些遭受宗教、政治或文化迫害的人的避風(fēng)港，英國(guó)脫歐不會(huì)改變這一點(diǎn)。我們歡迎海外學(xué)生來我們的大學(xué)學(xué)習(xí)。二戰(zhàn)后，據(jù)說巴哈馬移民拯救了倫敦交通，的確，我知道這就是“疾風(fēng)世代”來到這里的原因，所以，我們并不反對(duì)移民。我們反對(duì)的是那些吃白食的人，他們來這里不是為了工作，而是為了成為我們社會(huì)的一部分，希望靠我們肥沃的土地過活。為什么會(huì)有這么多非法移民涌入，除了會(huì)利用我們慷慨的天性還會(huì)啥?即使是合法的移民也會(huì)利用這一點(diǎn)，他們一旦來到這里，就試圖把他們的家人帶到這里，不僅是他們的父母、妻子和孩子，而且每個(gè)人都要把他們的三表哥及其家人帶到這里!

Mark Gee
Britain wants immigration, but not uncontrolled immigration. Britain should have the right to dictate who enters and who shouldn't. Skilled workers, professional, innovators. . All these contribute immensely.
Those who contribute to society and not leech off the system that they have never contributed to, we have enough of our own home grown leeches .
Bring your own culture and traditions but do not try to impose them on Britain. Don't expect Britain to change its ways and customs just to accommodate yours.

英國(guó)想要移民，但不是不受控制的移民。英國(guó)應(yīng)該有權(quán)決定誰能進(jìn)來，誰不能進(jìn)來。熟練工人，專業(yè)人士，創(chuàng)新者，所有這些移民都做出了巨大的貢獻(xiàn)。要那些對(duì)社會(huì)有貢獻(xiàn)的人，而不是要從來沒有貢獻(xiàn)過的體制中榨取的人，我們自己的寄生蟲已經(jīng)夠多了。你可以帶上你自己的文化和傳統(tǒng)，但不要把它們強(qiáng)加給英國(guó)。別指望英國(guó)會(huì)為了適應(yīng)你而改變自己的方式和習(xí)俗。

Joseph Hall
Lots of non-white immigrants from the Caribbean and South Asia settled in the UK in the 1950s and 60s. But the electorate were starting to complain to the government, so the government stopped immigration from the Caribbean in 1962. Asians were then stopped in 1968 or there abouts.
Then following the crisis in Uganda in 1971/72 the UK was obliged to take the Ugandan Asians that wanted to move to the UK, under International Law. But South Asians were still trickling in because it were their custom to marry people from their village back home. So the government made things difficult for these Asian brides at Heathrow Airport before allowing them to enter the country. They had to undergo “virginity tests" at the airport before being allowed into the UK. Those tests stopped in about 1979 following protests from the Indian government.
The next major wave of non-white immigrants were refugees in the early 1990s from Somalia and Eritrea from the wars in the horn of Africa. Then when Tony Blair won the 1997 General Election he relaxed the 1962 and 1968 immigration laws. This resulted in 3.2 million immigrants arriving in the UK from Africa, East Asia, South Asia, South America and Eastern European countries. So in reaction to all the fuss the International student post-study work Visa was scrapped, and immigrants who wanted a work Visa needed to study minimum salary requirements to get a work Visa, plus find an employer willing to sponsor them. Teressa May also made life difficult for Caribbeans not born in the UK who had come here as school children. She had destroyed documents held by the government detailing the date they arrived in the UK. So those of them that had not taken out a British passport could no longer prove they arrived in the UK before 1973. So some of them were deported though thrychad the right to live in the UK. Since then the UK has left the EU.
Boris Johnson is now Prime Minister and has in place new immigration rules from 2021. Such as the reduction of the minimum salary needed to qualify for a work Visa. Also from 2021 International students can stay on for 2 years after graduation going any job they can find.

上世紀(jì)五六十年代，許多來自加勒比海和南亞的非白人移民在英國(guó)定居。但是選民開始向政府抱怨，所以政府在1962年阻止了來自加勒比海的移民。亞洲人則在1968年左右被禁止進(jìn)入。然后，在1971/72年烏干達(dá)危機(jī)之后，根據(jù)國(guó)際法，英國(guó)被迫接收希望移居英國(guó)的烏干達(dá)亞裔移民。但南亞人仍在逐漸涌入，因?yàn)樗麄兊牧?xí)俗是與家鄉(xiāng)村子里的人通婚。所以，在允許這些亞洲新娘入境之前，英國(guó)人在希思羅機(jī)場(chǎng)給她們制造了麻煩。在獲準(zhǔn)進(jìn)入英國(guó)之前，她們必須在機(jī)場(chǎng)接受“處女測(cè)試”。在印度政府的抗議下，這些測(cè)試于1979年左右停止。下一波非白人移民主要是1990年代初來自索馬里和厄立特里亞的難民，他們來自非洲之角的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。1997年布萊爾贏得大選后，他放寬了1962年和1968年的移民法。這導(dǎo)致320萬來自非洲、東亞、南亞、南美和東歐國(guó)家的移民來到英國(guó)。因此，作為對(duì)這些混亂的反應(yīng)，國(guó)際學(xué)生的畢業(yè)工作簽證被取消，想要工作簽證的移民需要完成最低工資要求的學(xué)習(xí)來獲得工作簽證，并找到愿意為他們提供擔(dān)保的雇主。特蕾莎梅也讓那些不是在英國(guó)出生、在上學(xué)時(shí)就來到英國(guó)的加勒比海人的生活變得艱難。她銷毀了政府持有的文件，這些文件詳細(xì)記錄了他們抵達(dá)英國(guó)的日期。因此，那些沒有拿出英國(guó)護(hù)照的人，再也無法證明他們?cè)?973年之前到達(dá)了英國(guó)。所以他們中的一些人被驅(qū)逐出境，被剝奪了在英國(guó)居住的權(quán)利。自那以后，英國(guó)退出了歐盟。鮑里斯·約翰遜現(xiàn)在是英國(guó)首相，他從2021年起頒布了新的移民規(guī)定。比如降低獲得工作簽證所需的最低工資。此外，從2021年開始，國(guó)際學(xué)生可以在畢業(yè)后繼續(xù)工作2年，他們可以找到任何工作。

Profile photo for Chris Allen
We’re are not against immigration (Personally, I don’t care about what religion or race an immigrant is, I only care whether the immigrant coming is fully respectful of British values, and people in general. If you can’t respect people because of their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc, then I consider you unwelcome). We just simply want to control who comes in and how many. You see some people are deliberately ignoring several key problems that the UK is facing, these problems include:
NHS under intense pressure from ageing population.
Lots of schools facing extreme shortages of placements for children.
Lack of house-building.
Public services are being crippled with austerity cuts.
Emergency Services are under extreme pressure
Police numbers have been cut, and operational capability compromised.
Simply put, we can’t continue the level of immigration into the country. I have on several occasions been labelled racist by self-righteous remainers, just for stating my support for an Australian-like immigration system, yet I bet these same people wouldn’t go to Australia and shout their mouths off to everybody there and start accusing them for being completely racist for not opening up Australia to an influx of low-skilled migrants who will drag down wages, increase crime and pay little to no taxation whatsoever. These same people also seem to refuse to answer my queries about if they, themselves, would fully pay the cost of fixing the problems above, unsurprising really.

我們并不反對(duì)移民(就我個(gè)人而言，我不關(guān)心移民的宗教或種族，我只關(guān)心來的移民是否完全尊重英國(guó)的價(jià)值觀和普通人，如果你因?yàn)槿藗兊姆N族、宗教、性別、性取向等原因而不尊重他們，那么我認(rèn)為你是不受歡迎的)。：我們只是想控制進(jìn)來的人數(shù)。你可以看到，有些人故意忽略了英國(guó)面臨的幾個(gè)關(guān)鍵問題，這些問題包括:
國(guó)民保健服務(wù)面臨人口老齡化的巨大壓力
許多學(xué)校面臨著兒童安置的極端短缺
沒有房子
公共服務(wù)因緊縮政策受到削弱
緊急服務(wù)處于極度壓力之下
警察人數(shù)減少,作戰(zhàn)能力下降
簡(jiǎn)單地說,我們不能讓移民繼續(xù)涌入這個(gè)國(guó)家。我曾多次被自以為是的留歐派貼上種族主義者的標(biāo)簽，就因?yàn)槲冶硎局С诸愃瓢拇罄麃喌囊泼裰贫?，我敢打賭，這些人不會(huì)去澳大利亞，向那里的每個(gè)人大喊大叫，指責(zé)他們完全是種族主義者，因?yàn)樗麄儼拇罄麃啗]有向大量涌入的低技能移民開放，認(rèn)為這些移民會(huì)拉低工資，增加犯罪，而且?guī)缀醪患{稅。這些人似乎也拒絕回答我的問題，即他們自己是否愿意為解決上述問題支付全部費(fèi)用，這并不奇怪。

Stuart Beesley
We are not anti-migrants. We are against a massive invasion of migrants who just want to jump the queue. You do the British people a great disservice my suggesting that we are in someway racist. We are one of the most accepting peoples in the world.

我們不是反移民者。我們反對(duì)只是想插隊(duì)的大規(guī)模移民入侵。你說英國(guó)人在某種程度上是種族主義者，這對(duì)英國(guó)人是極大的傷害。我們是世界上最能接受移民的民族之一。