印度教神話并不是歷史，為什么很多印度人不接受這一點?
Why don’t people accept that Hindu mythology isn’t history?
譯文簡介
我不想傷害人們的感情，但我不明白，當(dāng)我告訴他們這是神話而不是歷史，為什么人們不接受？或者如果有人相信這確實是歷史，請用理性的觀點說服我。
正文翻譯
I don’t want to hurt people sentiments but I don’t understand why people dont take it well when you tell them it is mythology and not history or can anyone who believes that it is indeed history convince me with rational points?
我不想傷害人們的感情，但我不明白，當(dāng)我告訴他們這是神話而不是歷史，為什么人們不接受？或者如果有人相信這確實是歷史，請用理性的觀點說服我。
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Edit: well I ain’t here to defend Abrahamic religion. My point is even if they have absurd thing which is difficult to believe then it should be questioned and I guess they are.. Also it’s just that Hindu mythology have more absurd things which is difficult to believe that it might be possible even after advance science which is just like other mythologies like Greek, Egyptian, Chinese Norse etc but people from those area have almost accepted that it is more of mythology than history but we get offended.
編輯：哎，我不是來為亞伯拉罕宗教辯護(hù)的。我的觀點是，即使他們有難以置信的荒謬之事，也應(yīng)該受到質(zhì)疑，我猜他們是這樣做的。而且，只有印度神話是這樣，明明其中有很多荒謬的東西，即使在科學(xué)進(jìn)步之后，也很難相信它可能是真的，就像其他神話一樣，如希臘、埃及、中國、挪威等，但那些地區(qū)的人幾乎都承認(rèn)那更多的是神話，而非歷史，但我們卻會感覺到冒犯。
編輯：哎，我不是來為亞伯拉罕宗教辯護(hù)的。我的觀點是，即使他們有難以置信的荒謬之事，也應(yīng)該受到質(zhì)疑，我猜他們是這樣做的。而且，只有印度神話是這樣，明明其中有很多荒謬的東西，即使在科學(xué)進(jìn)步之后，也很難相信它可能是真的，就像其他神話一樣，如希臘、埃及、中國、挪威等，但那些地區(qū)的人幾乎都承認(rèn)那更多的是神話，而非歷史，但我們卻會感覺到冒犯。
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Because religion is the only identity most people have. They want to ascribe some sort of reality to it to feel like they are worth something.
因為宗教是大多數(shù)人擁有的唯一身份。他們想要賦予它某種現(xiàn)實感，讓自己覺得自己有價值。
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Truth bomb
真相炸彈。
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The real truthbomb is religion = identity causes more problems than it helps.
真正的真相炸彈是，宗教=身份導(dǎo)致的問題比它帶來的益處更多。
Indeed and it has been spiked in India to a different degree. Within the religion, you have sects and different taboo practices. Nobody seems to care or try to understand if they're different then why so, people are more worried about protecting their identity(religion) without knowing about it.
的確如此，在印度，這一比例已經(jīng)上升到了一個既然不同的程度。在這種宗教中，存在不同的教派和不同的禁忌。似乎沒有人關(guān)心或試圖理解他們是否不同，然后是為什么如此。人們更擔(dān)心在不知道這一點的情況下保護(hù)自己的身份(宗教)。
And right now India has mixed nationalism and Religion. I'm actually scared of future.
現(xiàn)在印度是民族主義和宗教的混合體。我真的很害怕未來。
You're not alone my friend.
你不是一個人，我的朋友。
You have been accused of speaking too much truth.
你曾因說了太多真話而被指責(zé)。
Eh no. Religion forms your identity acting as a factor just like your environment, culture, race etc. All of these combined with other things too makes you and who you are as a person. If you're gonna only identify yourself by your religion then I'm sorry but you're fucked.
額，不是。宗教就像你的環(huán)境、文化、種族等一樣，作為一種因素形成了你的身份。所有這些與其他事情結(jié)合在一起，也造就了你和你是怎樣的一個人。如果你只用宗教作為自己的身份，那我很抱歉，你完蛋了。
Yea. I know. That's what I alluded to. In an ideal world it should be inconsequential. But in that world everyone would have to do something to prove their worth. Why go through so much effort when you can just be part of a mass delusion and be valued.
是的。我知道。這就是我提到的。在一個理想的世界里，這應(yīng)該是無關(guān)緊要的。但在那個世界里，每個人都必須做點什么來證明自己的價值。如果只需要作為大眾錯覺的一部分，就能得到重視，為什么還要付出那么多努力呢。
I suppose people can believe whatever they want as long as they don't hurt others, just shouldn't be taught as curriculum i guess.
我想人們可以相信任何他們想要相信的東西，只要他們不傷害別人，我覺得只是不應(yīng)該作為課程加以傳授。
As a Muslim(born) and athiest(current), i agree!
作為一個穆斯林（出身）和無神論者（目前），我同意！
There’s a big gap between believing something”harmlessly” and not hurting others and believing mythology is “real” and propagating it through the nation’s cultural fabric.
“無害的”相信某件事和不傷害他人，并且相信神話是“真實的”并通過國家的文化結(jié)構(gòu)傳播，這兩者之間存在著巨大的差距。
可悲的是，考慮到印度廣大地區(qū)低下的教育水平，以及系統(tǒng)性地拒絕批判性思考和提出尖銳問題，“相信這種神話有什么害處”這個問題的答案是……巨大的。
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首先，我們會面臨一個更容易被狡猾政客所利用的人口，他們通過兜售甘尼薩/整形手術(shù)的故事來獲取政治利益。或者，不那么戲劇化的情況是，會有一大堆官老爺，利用那些容易上當(dāng)受騙的人。
It's not just the low educated ones, you'll find many engineers, doctors who believe every word of their respective religious texts and be very offended if you bring logic into the argument, the closing line will always be "It's a matter of faith".
不僅是教育程度低下的人，你會發(fā)現(xiàn)許多工程師，醫(yī)生相信他們各自宗教經(jīng)文里的每一句話，如果你把邏輯帶入爭論，他們會非常生氣，最后一句總是“這是信仰問題”。
^^^ its ironic they still cant confront logic, my dad works in stem and he couldnt, even though he has been exposed to much more. It took until me to get sensible, the effect of this 'brainwashing' is strong (i love my dad and mom but they can be stubborn)
諷刺的是，他們?nèi)匀徊荒苊鎸壿嫞业母赣H在理工領(lǐng)域工作，他就做不到，即使他已經(jīng)接觸了更多理工科人士。在我變得理智之前，這種“洗腦”的效果一度很強烈(我愛我的爸爸媽媽，但他們可能很固執(zhí))。
I mean it is makes a good story
我想說這是一個很好的故事。
What shouldn’t be taught?
什么不應(yīng)該拿來傳授？
Religious mythology
宗教神話。
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I think there's no harm in teaching mythology as long as it's taught as mythological stories and not history.
我認(rèn)為教神話并沒有什么壞處，只要它是作為神話故事，而不是作為歷史來傳授。
There’s a Right – and Wrong – Way to Teach scxtures in Government Schools
在公立學(xué)校教授經(jīng)文的方式有對有錯。
1974年，宗教研究學(xué)者詹姆斯·v·帕諾克認(rèn)為，在公立學(xué)校教授宗教的教學(xué)方法應(yīng)該是學(xué)術(shù)的，而不是虔誠的。雖然公立學(xué)?？梢詭椭岣咦诮桃庾R，特別是通過比較研究，但它不應(yīng)該以學(xué)生接受某一特定宗教為目標(biāo)。
這些原則后來被納入了由哈佛神學(xué)院學(xué)者Diane L. Moore領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的一個特別小組制定的在公立學(xué)校教授宗教的指導(dǎo)方針中。
I am surprised Indian govt spending millions for discovering Saraswati river not in terms of geography but mainly it is associated with religious point.
我很驚訝，印度政府花數(shù)百萬美元來尋找薩拉斯瓦蒂河，不是從地理角度，而是主要與宗教有關(guān)。
Funny thing is Saraswati is probably the Oxus river in Central Asia. Millions to find a rive in country where it's not.
有趣的是，薩拉斯瓦蒂可能就是中亞的奧克蘇斯河?；藬?shù)百萬，在一個不存在某條河流的國家尋找這條河流。
I never saw that angle. Any sources. I always thought it was some extinct river around the western IVC sites I'm Rajasthan or Gujarat.
我從來沒從這個角度看問題。有什么來源嗎？我一直以為這是西部印度河流域的一條滅絕了的河流，我認(rèn)為是拉賈斯坦邦或古吉拉特邦。
Millions sanctioned is opportunity to siphon millions.
And mostly nobody questions religious spends.
批準(zhǔn)了數(shù)百萬，就有機(jī)會分潤數(shù)百萬。
而且?guī)缀鯖]有人對宗教開支提出質(zhì)疑。
Our school bags are the heaviest in the world. Could we please just not add crap to them?
I don’t have an issue if parents want their kids to learn these stories but teaching mythology without historical context or as a form of comparative religion studies in schools is completely unacceptable.
我們印度的書包是全世界最重的。能不能別往里面加垃圾書本了?
如果父母想讓他們的孩子學(xué)習(xí)這些故事，我沒有意見，但在學(xué)校里教授沒有歷史背景的神話，或?qū)⑵渥鳛橐环N比較宗教研究的形式，是完全不可接受的。
Wouldn't be much of a difference then between a "secular" state like India and an Islamic republic like Pakistan teaching Islamic studies to its students.
那么，像印度這樣的“世俗”國家和像巴基斯坦這樣教學(xué)生伊斯蘭教的伊斯蘭共和國之間就沒有多大區(qū)別了。
Which mythology? Why not Satanism, Ra?lism, Mormonism or Branch Dravidianism? The instant you choose one, you end up giving it preference of some sort.
The key battleground here has actually been the language textbooks - which have been a fountain of the most regressive nonsense being taught to children.
什么神話? 為什么不是撒旦教，Ra?lism，摩門教或德拉維教分支? 一旦你選擇了一個，你最終會給予它某種偏愛。
這個問題的關(guān)鍵戰(zhàn)場實際上是語言教科書——這些教科書一直是教給孩子們最倒退的廢話的源泉。
Its fine for it to be taught as religious mythology. Just not as a factual history. The gains and critical thinking would actually be benificial for the pupil
把它當(dāng)作宗教神話來教授是很好的。只是不要當(dāng)作真實的歷史。其收獲和批判性思維實際上對學(xué)生是有益的。
Because it is culturally offensive. Imagine going to a Muslim or Christian and start talking about their religion as “mythology”. Not only will you be met with anger and hostility but they will argue tooth and nail for what they believe in. In the end it is not worth it. Who cares if it’s called “mythology” vs “religious studies”. Let them have their cake.
Edit: you are basically saying “your whole life is a lie” when you refer to it as mythology
因為這種做法在文化上很無禮。想象一下，去一個穆斯林或基督徒那里，開始把他們的宗教說成是“神話”。你不僅會遭遇憤怒和敵意，而且他們會為自己的信仰殊死爭辯。這種做法終究并不值得。誰在乎它是叫“神話”還是叫“宗教研究”。讓他們自己玩自己的吧。
編輯：當(dāng)你說你的人生是神話的時候，你基本上是在說“你的整個人生就是一個謊言”。
Imagine going to a Muslim or Christian and start talking about their religion as “mythology”.
They are all Mythology.
它們都是神話。
Many religious people don't take mythology literally. They do believe that the myths are parables that teach them a philosophical/ religious lessons.
許多信教的人并沒有從字面上理解神話。他們確實相信那些神話是寓言，在哲學(xué)/宗教上教導(dǎo)他們。
Do you mean bhagwad Geeta in Gujarat's government schools?
你是說古吉拉特邦公立學(xué)校的bhagad Geeta嗎?
Pretty sure OP is referring to that
我很確定OP指的是這個。
it shouldn't be forced. I studied in Dav school when i was a kid and they shove down some bullshit about arya samaj to you. Its not an elective.
不應(yīng)該是強制的。我小時候在Dav學(xué)校上學(xué)，他們給我灌輸過一些關(guān)于艾莉亞·薩馬杰的屁話。并不是選修課。
One of the worst thing about DAV is that you can't even choose not to attend that dharma shiksha(arya samaj related)class. The DAV school branch i studied in was so religious,they asked us to perform havan pujas(the teacher say's the snaskrit words and the students have to throw the materials in the havan and say words along him), plus they didn't even inform us about the puja beforehand so that we could bunk the day,i am a muslim and just thinking about the amount of times I was scolded by my teachers for not performing pujas makes me fume.
DAV學(xué)校最糟糕的事情之一，是你甚至不能選擇不上dharma shiksha課。我上的那所DAV分校宗教氣息十分濃厚，他們要求我們參加火祭法會（老師念經(jīng)，要求學(xué)生必須向火祭里丟東西，并且跟他一起念經(jīng)），另外他們甚至沒有事先通知我們要進(jìn)行法會，這樣的話我們那天就可以逃課。我是一個穆斯林，一想到我因為不參加法會而被老師責(zé)罵的次數(shù)，我就很生氣。
The same reason every other religion treats it's big book like a TRUE HISTORY tome. If someone grows up in a culture that doesn't question it's beliefs, odds are they'll fall in line too.
這和其他宗教把自己的經(jīng)典當(dāng)做真正的歷史書的原因是一樣的。如果一個人在一個不質(zhì)疑自己信仰的文化中長大，那么他也很有可能會順從。
It isn't true in every case but I do agree that most people accept what is presented to them than rather read and question and figure what value it adds on their own life.
雖然不是所有情況下都是這樣，但我確實同意大多數(shù)人接受呈現(xiàn)給他們的東西，而不是閱讀、質(zhì)疑和計算它給自己的生活增加了什么價值。
Once when my mom and I were still arguing over me getting married to a someone from a different caste, she was watching Ramayan and the scene came up where Ram has Sabari's joothe ber. He says something along the lines of all people are same regardless of their social standing. I straight up told her what's the point is believing in gods and watching these shows if you're not going to pay attention to what they're saying?
有一次，當(dāng)我媽媽和我依然在為我與一個來自不同種姓的人結(jié)婚的事情爭吵時，她在看羅摩衍那，當(dāng)時正放到一幕，羅摩說了一些類似于“所有人無論社會地位如何都是一樣的”的話。我直接跟她說，如果你不在意神明們說了什么，那你信仰他們，并且看那些節(jié)目又有什么意義？
Because only in India your religion heavily decides your future in a way. You know what I'm talking about, caste and all o' that. If we had equality along with true secularism then religion wouldn't be as much of a major factor it is now.
因為只有在印度，你的宗教在某種程度上決定了你的未來。你知道我在說什么，就是種姓之類的。如果我們有平等和真正的世俗主義，那么宗教就不會像現(xiàn)在這樣是一個主要因素。