作為一個(gè)塞爾維亞人，你是否覺(jué)得西方看不起你，你是否擔(dān)心他們的影響和統(tǒng)治地位？
As a Serb do you feel like West looks down on you and are you worried about their influence & dominance?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
你是否覺(jué)得來(lái)自西方的人看你不起？你是否覺(jué)得通過(guò)互聯(lián)網(wǎng)和社交媒體，他們正試圖把整個(gè)世界變成美國(guó)，以至于現(xiàn)在的塞爾維亞開(kāi)始變得越來(lái)越像西方，而不是塞爾維亞？
正文翻譯
As a Serb do you feel like West looks down on you and are you worried about their influence & dominance?
作為一個(gè)塞爾維亞人，你是否覺(jué)得西方看不起你，你是否擔(dān)心他們的影響和統(tǒng)治地位？
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I've never been discriminated living in the UK or in Norway, but there always was this frustrating feeling I had particularly with Norway where people around me always boasted about their country and its superiority over other countries and me being a guy who isn't ethnically Norwegian, you're basically just stood there watching people celebrate with you just stood/sat there awkwardly and that was always something that bothered me. Many times when I heard people talk about Serbia it would be about the recent war and how the Serbs were the bad guys, and even thought they weren't holding me responsible for it it always felt like fingers were getting pointed in my direction like I'm a war criminal.
我本想用塞爾維亞語(yǔ)寫（izvini los pricam Srpski！），但碰巧我出生在英國(guó)，我的父母從戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中逃出來(lái)后我在挪威長(zhǎng)大，所以我不得不用英語(yǔ)問(wèn)這個(gè)問(wèn)題。你是否覺(jué)得西方國(guó)家認(rèn)為塞爾維亞是個(gè)文化不發(fā)達(dá)的地方？覺(jué)得他們比我們好？比我們更聰明？
我在英國(guó)和挪威生活時(shí)從未受到過(guò)歧視，但我一直有一種令人沮喪的感覺(jué)，特別是在挪威，我周圍的人總是夸耀他們的國(guó)家和它對(duì)其他國(guó)家的優(yōu)越性，而我作為一個(gè)沒(méi)有挪威血統(tǒng)的人，基本上只能站在那里看著人們吹牛，你只能尷尬地站/坐在那里，這一直是困擾我的事情。很多時(shí)候，當(dāng)我聽(tīng)到人們談?wù)撊麪柧S亞的時(shí)候，都是關(guān)于最近的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，以及塞爾維亞人是如何作為一個(gè)壞人的，即使他們并不要求我對(duì)此負(fù)責(zé)，但我總覺(jué)得手指被指向我的方向，好像我是一個(gè)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪犯。
I feel personally like the West is not helping to unite with the East because regardless of the bad things done by Serbian leaders at the time, there was benefit for the West to make the ill narrative about us. It's like they're trying to dominate the world and impose their values and culture on us all including Russia and China without actually wanting us to be on their level. It's hard for me to think that America for instance would want a democratic Russia because then they'd have a country they can't control or paint with a bad brush. I feel like it's the same story with us. "Be like us, but don't be as great as us because we're nr 1!".
What are your thoughts?
因此，我的問(wèn)題是，你是否覺(jué)得來(lái)自西方的人看你不起？你是否覺(jué)得通過(guò)互聯(lián)網(wǎng)和社交媒體，他們正試圖把整個(gè)世界變成美國(guó)，以至于現(xiàn)在的塞爾維亞開(kāi)始變得越來(lái)越像西方，而不是塞爾維亞？你是否擔(dān)心塞爾維亞偉大的文化價(jià)值會(huì)因此而減弱？還有你們對(duì)“如果作為塞爾維亞人我們不像西方人那樣生活，那么我們就會(huì)永遠(yuǎn)落后于他們”這種想法有什么看法？
我個(gè)人感覺(jué)，西方國(guó)家不希望東方國(guó)家團(tuán)結(jié)起來(lái)，因?yàn)椴还苋麪柧S亞領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人當(dāng)時(shí)做了什么壞事，西方國(guó)家對(duì)我們進(jìn)行惡意的敘述都是對(duì)他們自己有好處的。他們好像試圖主宰世界，把他們的價(jià)值觀和文化強(qiáng)加給我們所有人，包括俄羅斯和中國(guó)，而實(shí)際上并不希望我們與他們平起平坐。我很難想象，例如美國(guó)會(huì)希望有一個(gè)民主的俄羅斯，因?yàn)檫@樣他們就會(huì)有一個(gè)他們無(wú)法控制的國(guó)家，或者一個(gè)用“壞蛋”的筆刷來(lái)涂抹的國(guó)家。我覺(jué)得這和我們的情況一樣。"你們要像我們一樣，但不能像我們一樣偉大，因?yàn)槲覀兪堑谝唬?。
你們有什么想法？
vosa le
the west looks down on every slavic country lol. and then they act confused when countries like slovakia, poland and serbia "go against" western democratic values after years of ridicule and no support of said values from the west.
西方人看不起每一個(gè)斯拉夫國(guó)家，笑。當(dāng)斯洛伐克、波蘭和塞爾維亞等國(guó)家在被西方嘲笑多年并且從沒(méi)有得到西方對(duì)這些價(jià)值觀的支持而開(kāi)始“反對(duì)”這些西方價(jià)值觀時(shí)，他們又表現(xiàn)得很困惑。
I'd rather not debate anyone's stance on Ukrainian war, but weirdly enough it helped me make peace with Serbian "reputation" abroad.
Regardless of the outcome or who's at fault for this war, it truly taught me how strong "propaganda" (probably not the wisest word choice, but still), even a subtle one, can be, from the various Ghosts of Kiev/Kyiv to ridiculous stories about heroism (from both sides) which were reported as absolute facts, or acts of barbarism such as Russians eating dogs and similar.
Considering that all of recent wars on our peninsula took place in 90s, it comes as no surprise to see how easily a narrative was crafted and how quicky people ate it up, so I can't necessarily blame people that fell for it, since vast majority of them is not acquainted to the history of their homelands.
我不想和任何人辯論對(duì)烏克蘭戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)的立場(chǎng)，但奇怪的是，它幫助我對(duì)塞爾維亞在國(guó)外的"聲譽(yù)"泰然處之。
不管結(jié)果如何，也不管這場(chǎng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)是誰(shuí)的錯(cuò)，它真的讓我知道了"宣傳"（可能不是最明智的選詞）有多強(qiáng)，即使是微妙的宣傳，從基輔的各種幽靈到關(guān)于英雄主義的荒謬故事（來(lái)自雙方），或野蠻的行為，如俄羅斯人吃狗或諸如此類，都被當(dāng)作絕對(duì)的事實(shí)來(lái)報(bào)道。
考慮到我們半島最近的所有戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)都發(fā)生在90年代，我們不難發(fā)現(xiàn)，這樣的敘述是多么容易制作，人們是多么迅速地接受它，所以我不一定責(zé)怪那些上當(dāng)?shù)娜?，因?yàn)樗麄冎械慕^大多數(shù)人都不了解他們家鄉(xiāng)的歷史。
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Vr?ac
As a Serb do you feel like West looks down on you
Yes
are you worried about their influence & dominance?
No
“作為一個(gè)塞族人，你覺(jué)得西方看不起你嗎？”
是的
“你擔(dān)心他們的影響和支配地位嗎？”
不擔(dān)心
There is a pretty big "colonial empire" mindset in the West, they generally look down upon everyone that is not anglosaxon.
Another reason is generally very poor education with completely different focus in the West, means that they are prone to completely unjustified feelings of superiority. I was at Erasmus meetup once some time ago, and as you know all people there are students. Thing is, you could see Westerners legitimately looking down upon us as lower people.
The irony is that you could also see that me and my friend (he is Croatian, I am Serb) were probably the smartest people there and we are both very average here. There is this aura of unintelligence you could almost see above them. I led better conversations with drunks outside drugstores than them.
I only noticed this with westerners, generally other slavs, and Greeks and Turks are far warmer, friendly, and more likely to be able to lead an intellectual conversation.
在西方有一個(gè)相當(dāng)大的"殖民帝國(guó)"的心態(tài)，他們通常看不起不是盎格魯人的人。
另一個(gè)原因是西方國(guó)家的教育普遍很差，重點(diǎn)完全不同，這意味著他們很容易產(chǎn)生完全沒(méi)有道理的優(yōu)越感。前段時(shí)間我參加了伊拉斯謨聚會(huì)，你知道，參加的人都是學(xué)生。問(wèn)題是，你可以看到西方人理所當(dāng)然地把我們當(dāng)作低等人看不起。
諷刺的是，你也可以看到我和我的朋友（他是克羅地亞人，我是塞爾維亞人）可能是那里最聰明的人，而我們?cè)谶@里（本國(guó)）都很普通。你幾乎可以看到在他們的頭上閃爍著不聰明的光環(huán)。我跟藥店外的醉漢的談話都比他們更有益。
我注意到只是與西方人的對(duì)話是這樣，一般與其他斯拉夫人，希臘人和土耳其人的對(duì)話要溫暖、友好得多，而且更有可能產(chǎn)生一場(chǎng)帶智商的對(duì)話。
In school, I never had to swear allegiance and we never talked about loyalty to a country, but we spent a lot of time discussing other parts of the world, cultures, economy and how the society itself functions. For class, I had to critically analyse various political speeches of the current politicians.
This very big difference in "mindset" leads to them being completely and utterly blind to everything that is not fed to them.
I have met british who have no idea how much murder their country did.
Americans that really saw themselves as paragons of virtue and are surprised you dont kiss their feet.
On reddit, they are even worse, which is somewhat different than general rule of people on reddit being more progressive than irl.
It's incredible, and disgusting.
這種天生的差異在與美國(guó)人交往時(shí)更加明顯。大家可能都無(wú)法理解他們對(duì)自己的國(guó)家狂熱的崇拜之情，而不是想想自己，這與我們這里的人不同。他們有專家，但他們要成為專家，需要的是堅(jiān)持，而不是智慧。
在學(xué)校里，我從來(lái)不需要宣誓效忠，我們也從來(lái)不談對(duì)國(guó)家的忠誠(chéng)，但我們花了很多時(shí)間討論世界其他地區(qū)、文化、經(jīng)濟(jì)和社會(huì)本身如何運(yùn)作。在課堂上，我也必須批判性地分析當(dāng)前政治家的各種政治演說(shuō)。
這種非常大的"心態(tài)"差異導(dǎo)致他們對(duì)沒(méi)有被灌輸?shù)臇|西完全徹底地視而不見(jiàn)。
我見(jiàn)過(guò)的英國(guó)人不知道他們的國(guó)家做了多少缺德事。
美國(guó)人是真的把自己當(dāng)作美德的典范，對(duì)你不去親吻他們的腳感到驚訝。
在reddit上，他們甚至更糟糕，這與reddit上的人通常比現(xiàn)實(shí)中的人更進(jìn)步的一般規(guī)律有所不同。
這令人難以置信，而且令人厭惡。
I am in a club of not giving two shits what West thinks of me because I have enough of my own problems.
我處在一個(gè)不會(huì)在乎西方人對(duì)我的看法的俱樂(lè)部，因?yàn)槲易约旱膯?wèn)題已經(jīng)夠多了。
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I KNOW they look down on us, but personally the feeling is more than mutual so I guess we are even?
我知道他們看不起我們，但就我個(gè)人而言，我們的感覺(jué)是相互的，所以我想我們是平等的。
The West is developed, but not smarter. I would never change my life in Serbia for the one in London, cross my heart! It is great to visit any place, but living among your culture and people is the best place to leave.
For the feelings they have, nobody can help them. Also I would not generalize and I think that other nations just do not think about any nation. it is all at the individual level.
Serbian history and culture are very rich, As a small people we did a lot and we are proud of it.
西方是發(fā)達(dá)的，但不是更聰明的。我絕不會(huì)為了倫敦的生活而改變我在塞爾維亞的生活，我發(fā)誓！參觀任何地方都很好，但生活在自己的文化和人民中才是最好的歸宿。
對(duì)于他們的感受，沒(méi)有人可以幫助他們。另外我不會(huì)以偏概全，我認(rèn)為其他民族是不會(huì)對(duì)任何另一個(gè)民族有整體性的看法的。這都是個(gè)人層面的。
塞爾維亞的歷史和文化是非常豐富的，作為一個(gè)小民族，我們做了很多事情，我們?yōu)榇烁械阶院馈?/b>
I don't care about them and their opinions
我不關(guān)心他們，也不關(guān)心他們的意見(jiàn)
Basically, most of us share your opinion about it all. Also most of us developed some sort of apathy towards that. And I think that isn't just us.
基本上，我們大多數(shù)人對(duì)這一切有著相同的看法。同時(shí)我們大多數(shù)人對(duì)此產(chǎn)生了某種冷漠的態(tài)度。而且我認(rèn)為不僅僅我們是這樣。
As a Serb do you feel like West looks down on you
We don’t care
are you worried about their influence & dominance?
No
“作為一個(gè)塞族人，你覺(jué)得西方看不起你嗎？”
我們并不關(guān)心
“你擔(dān)心他們的影響和主導(dǎo)地位嗎？”
不擔(dān)心
My father was Serbian, my mother was Australian. My experience is every country seems to have a hierarchy of other countries. My older Serbian relatives had a strong reaction when I announced I was marrying an Asian and my FIL was initially less than delighted his daughter was marrying a foreigner.
In Australia when I was young we were highly concerned about the US influence on our culture. I'm sure there's a joke from many about Australian culture being an oxymoron.
Serbia is certainly becoming popular in the west with libertarians, particularly after the Covid period, where some couldn't even leave or return to their country.
Serbia is a fantastic country with some of the most kind, generous and hospitable people I have met and if people make negative assumptions about you because you're a Serb, it's their problem.
I think economically Serbia will be a future Japan, Korea or Singapore which if combined with Serbian lifestyle will make many Serbs want to return home and draw a lot of migrants. Although I must admit, I don't think I could handle a Serbian winter.
As far as western influence, the west is a declining power that will go the way of the Roman Empire. A couple of years ago I believed that China, and Russia would be a new power group, but due to recent events, I'm not so sure.
我父親是塞爾維亞人，我母親是澳大利亞人。我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)是每個(gè)國(guó)家似乎都對(duì)其他國(guó)家有一個(gè)等級(jí)制度。當(dāng)我宣布要和一個(gè)亞洲人結(jié)婚時(shí)，我年長(zhǎng)的塞爾維亞親戚有強(qiáng)烈的反應(yīng)，而我的父親最初對(duì)他的女兒嫁給一個(gè)外國(guó)人不太高興。
在澳大利亞，當(dāng)我年輕時(shí)，我們高度關(guān)注美國(guó)對(duì)我們文化的影響。我相信很多人都在開(kāi)玩笑，說(shuō)澳大利亞文化是一個(gè)矛盾體。
塞爾維亞在西方確實(shí)越來(lái)越受到自由意志主義者的歡迎，尤其是在新冠狀病毒時(shí)期之后，一些人甚至不能離開(kāi)或返回自己的國(guó)家。
塞爾維亞是一個(gè)神奇的國(guó)家，有一些我見(jiàn)過(guò)的最善良、最慷慨和最好客的人，如果人們因?yàn)槟闶侨麪柧S亞人而對(duì)你做出負(fù)面的假設(shè)，那是他們的問(wèn)題。
我認(rèn)為在經(jīng)濟(jì)上塞爾維亞將成為未來(lái)的日本、韓國(guó)或新加坡，如果與塞爾維亞的生活方式相結(jié)合，將使許多塞爾維亞人想要返回家園，并吸引大量的移民。雖然我必須承認(rèn)，我不認(rèn)為我可以應(yīng)付塞爾維亞的冬天。
至于西方的影響，西方是一個(gè)衰落的霸權(quán)，將走到羅馬帝國(guó)的道路上。幾年前，我相信中國(guó)和俄羅斯會(huì)成為一個(gè)新的權(quán)力集團(tuán)，但由于最近的事件，我不太確定了。
Australija
I think economically Serbia will be a future Japan, Korea or Singapore which if combined with Serbian lifestyle will make many Serbs want to return home and draw a lot of migrants. Although I must admit, I don't think I could handle a Serbian winter.
I don't see it ever becoming this, but then again, Shenzhen was but a small fishing village until the 1997 Hong Kong handover, and now it's a bustling metropolis, so anything could happen.
“我認(rèn)為在經(jīng)濟(jì)上塞爾維亞將是未來(lái)的日本、韓國(guó)或新加坡，如果與塞爾維亞的生活方式相結(jié)合，將使許多塞爾維亞人想要返回家園，并吸引大量的移民。雖然我必須承認(rèn)，我不認(rèn)為我可以應(yīng)付塞爾維亞的冬天?！?br /> 我不認(rèn)為它會(huì)變成這樣，但話說(shuō)回來(lái)，在1997年香港回歸之前，深圳不過(guò)是一個(gè)小漁村，而現(xiàn)在它是一個(gè)繁華的大都市，所以任何事情都可能發(fā)生。
If only we have the will to get our shit together.
只要我們有意愿把我們的事情做好。
I dont think we will make progress anytime soon, my friend.
Corruption aside, as soon as we might try to develop independent power some western nation will see it as a threat and stump out the flame.
我不認(rèn)為我們會(huì)很快取得進(jìn)展，我的朋友。
撇開(kāi)腐敗不談，只要我們可能嘗試獨(dú)立發(fā)展，一些西方國(guó)家就會(huì)將其視為一種威脅，并將這把火掐掉。
I couldn't care less what they think of us
我不關(guān)心他們對(duì)我們的看法
Don't think about it too much
對(duì)此沒(méi)有什么想法
Dude, they still have wet dreams about their colonialism days. By no means are they smarter or superior compared to us, it's just that even tho Hitler didn't win ww2, his ideology definitely did. They are blinded by propaganda and hatred even more than we are and it's just pathetic, they generally think that Slavs are still tribes. They give themselves right to call us upon wars in which they have no clue what happened but as soon as you step into their yard you get million explanations how holding black people in a zoo is okay, lol. The problem is that now you can't just randomly go to africa or indochina and commit a GENO...., now you need very good excuse to cover up your actions so they keep believing propaganda about us and Russian GENO.... against Ukraine, the bastion of democracy.
老兄，他們還在為他們的殖民主義時(shí)代做著春夢(mèng)。與我們相比，他們絕不更聰明或更優(yōu)越，可悲的是，雖然希特勒沒(méi)有贏得第二次世界大戰(zhàn)，但他的意識(shí)形態(tài)絕對(duì)贏了。他們比我們更被宣傳和仇恨所蒙蔽，這很可悲，他們普遍認(rèn)為斯拉夫人還是部落。他們高高在上，在他們不知道發(fā)生了什么的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中辱罵我們，但只要你反過(guò)來(lái)指責(zé)他們干的事情，你就會(huì)得到一百萬(wàn)個(gè)為什么在動(dòng)物園里關(guān)押黑人是可以的的解釋，笑。問(wèn)題是，現(xiàn)在你不能隨意去非洲或印度支那實(shí)施種族滅絕了，現(xiàn)在你需要非常好的借口來(lái)掩蓋你的行為，所以他們一直相信關(guān)于我們和俄羅斯對(duì)烏克蘭這個(gè)民主堡壘的種族滅絕的宣傳。
West is looking like that at everyone else. It's not so much culturally as much as economically and industrially. Especially Norway is way more developed than rest of the world.
On the other hand, weather in both England and Norway sucks, horrible countries to live in, it's no wonder they hate rest of the world.
Serbs were everywhere bad guys, so it's not Norways fault.
西方人對(duì)其他人都是這樣看的。這不是文化上的問(wèn)題，而是經(jīng)濟(jì)和工業(yè)上的問(wèn)題。特別是挪威比世界其他地方要發(fā)達(dá)得多。
另一方面，英國(guó)和挪威的天氣都很糟糕，生活在可怕的國(guó)家，難怪他們討厭世界其他地區(qū)。
塞爾維亞人在哪都是壞人，所以這不是挪威的錯(cuò)。
OP
I find it interesting how you say it's not so much culturally, because even though we are different to Norwegians culturally we're at the same time not really that different other than maybe we could think more collectively about society like we used to? The biggest difference I noticed is that with Norwegians they are collectivists politically but individualists socially and with Serbs it seems to be the opposite. Where you would be treated with a lot of hospitality if you visted someone, but when it comes society you see a lot of litter on the ground which Norwegians would NOT tolerate. And when you have a Norwegian friend he or she would expect you to pay for your own food when going out. So we're individualists and collectivists in opposite cases?
我覺(jué)得你說(shuō)這不是文化上的問(wèn)題的說(shuō)法很有意思，因?yàn)榧词刮覀冊(cè)谖幕吓c挪威人不同，但同時(shí)我們除了不再像以前那樣更集體地思考社會(huì)外，好像其實(shí)也沒(méi)有那么不同？我注意到最大的不同是，挪威人在政治上是集體主義者，但在社會(huì)上是個(gè)人主義者，而塞爾維亞人似乎正好相反。如果你去拜訪某個(gè)人，你會(huì)受到很好的款待，但在社會(huì)上，你會(huì)看到地上有很多垃圾，這是挪威人所不能容忍的。當(dāng)你有一個(gè)挪威朋友時(shí)，他或她會(huì)希望你在外出就餐時(shí)自己付錢。所以，我們是情況正好相反的個(gè)人主義者和集體主義者？
What you described is exactly what my diaspora family says about denmark. Interesting
你所描述的正是我僑居的家庭對(duì)丹麥的評(píng)價(jià)。有意思
OP
Mhm yeah! Danes and Norwegians are basically Serbs and Bosnians!
嗯，是的！丹麥人和挪威人的關(guān)系基本上就像塞爾維亞人和波斯尼亞人!
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I just want to get my N-word pass.
我只想拿到我說(shuō)N打頭那個(gè)詞的權(quán)利。
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Yes, and I have more important shit to worry about.
是的，不過(guò)我有更重要的事情要擔(dān)心。
Oh yeah absolutely,but sometimes it is justified,however just because sometimes it is justified,doesn't mean it's always justified,but most people don't bother making that distinction because they don't care,and it doesn't impact their lives.
是的，但有時(shí)它是合理的，然而，僅僅因?yàn)橛袝r(shí)它是合理的，并不意味著它總是合理的，但大多數(shù)人不屑于做這種區(qū)分，因?yàn)樗麄儾辉诤?，而且這并不影響他們的生活。
Do you feel like the West sees Serbia as less culturally developed?
'Culturally'? Nope, never felt that. I feel that majority in the West just doesn't care about our culture enough. Only those who visit or like it care.
In that they're better than us? Smarter than us?
Again, with people from Western countries I met, I never found this kind of attitude (although it probably exists, but a lot people here think we are smartest so I don't see point in generalization)
Many times when I heard people talk about Serbia it would be about the recent war and how the Serbs were the bad guys, and even thought they weren't holding me responsible for it it always felt like fingers were getting pointed in my direction like I'm a war criminal.
Yeah because it is most recent experience many in the West and Norway had with Serbia. They are not completely wrong, we did a lot of bad things, I would just like to see more of them talk about wrong things of other sides.
“你覺(jué)得西方國(guó)家認(rèn)為塞爾維亞在文化上不夠發(fā)達(dá)嗎？”
'文化上'？不，從來(lái)沒(méi)有這種感覺(jué)。我覺(jué)得西方的大多數(shù)人對(duì)我們的文化漠不關(guān)心。只有那些訪問(wèn)過(guò)或喜歡它的人關(guān)心。
“認(rèn)為他們比我們好？比我們更聰明？”
同樣，在我遇到的西方國(guó)家的人中，我從來(lái)沒(méi)有發(fā)現(xiàn)這種態(tài)度（雖然它可能存在，但這里的很多人也認(rèn)為我們是最聰明的，所以我認(rèn)為沒(méi)有必要一概而論）。
“很多時(shí)候，當(dāng)我聽(tīng)到人們談?wù)撊麪柧S亞時(shí)，都是關(guān)于最近的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，以及塞爾維亞人是如何成為壞人的，即使他們不認(rèn)為我應(yīng)該對(duì)此負(fù)責(zé)，但總覺(jué)得手指被指向我的方向，好像我是一個(gè)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)犯?！?br /> 是的，因?yàn)檫@是許多西方國(guó)家和挪威人對(duì)塞爾維亞的最新經(jīng)驗(yàn)。他們并不完全是錯(cuò)的，我們做了很多壞事，我只是希望看到他們更多地談?wù)撐覀兤渌矫娴腻e(cuò)事。
No, absolutely not, at least I personally didn't have that experience that somebody thinks low of me just because I'm Serbian. It's the same way how I look at people - not by their nationality, religion or or side of the world they are coming from, but by what kind of person they are. Sure, you would probably be able to find some of those fools who will just look at you through ethnic lens, but it's easy to cut them off. Also, I'm in no way ashamed to be Serbian, because for all the bad things we did, we did much more good for the world so I don't care. If somebody has problem with me being Serbian, they can fuck the right off.
And do you feel like through internet and social media they're trying to make the whole world into America in a way that Serbia nowadays is starting to feel more and more western and not Serbia?
Well, US is for sure most influential and powerful country that ever existed and Western culture is more visible in Serbia today than before, but that's fine with me. I don't see anything wrong with it. Countries, peoples, cultures, languages evolve through history, that was always the case and it's unstoppable process. We should keep our traditions for sure, but it's inevitable that our culture and traditions will continue to evolve. That's the world.
“因此，我的問(wèn)題是，你是否覺(jué)得西方國(guó)家的人看不起你？”
沒(méi)有，絕對(duì)沒(méi)有，至少我個(gè)人沒(méi)有過(guò)這種經(jīng)驗(yàn)，說(shuō)有人因?yàn)槲沂侨麪柧S亞人而看不起我。我看人的方式也是如此--不看他們的國(guó)籍、宗教或他們來(lái)自世界的哪一方，而是看他們是個(gè)什么樣的人。當(dāng)然，你很可能會(huì)找到一些只用種族眼光看你的傻瓜，但可以很容易地打斷他。另外，我絕不為自己是塞爾維亞人而感到羞恥，因?yàn)楸M管我們做了很多壞事，但我們?yōu)槭澜缱隽烁嗪檬?，所以我不在乎。如果有人?duì)我是塞爾維亞人有意見(jiàn)，他們可以滾開(kāi)。
“你是否覺(jué)得通過(guò)互聯(lián)網(wǎng)和社交媒體，他們正試圖把整個(gè)世界變成美國(guó)的樣子，現(xiàn)在的塞爾維亞開(kāi)始感覺(jué)越來(lái)越像西方，而不是塞爾維亞？”
嗯，美國(guó)肯定是有史以來(lái)最有影響力和最強(qiáng)大的國(guó)家，西方文化今天在塞爾維亞比以前更明顯，但這對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)沒(méi)什么不好。我不認(rèn)為這有什么問(wèn)題。國(guó)家、民族、文化、語(yǔ)言在歷史中不斷發(fā)展，這是一直以來(lái)的情況，是不可阻擋的過(guò)程。我們當(dāng)然應(yīng)該保持我們的傳統(tǒng)，但我們的文化和傳統(tǒng)將繼續(xù)發(fā)展，這是不可避免的。這就是世界。
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I mean, we are not doing the best. I don't think we should become Westerners, but I do think we should take things that work well in their systems and try to implement it here, in one form or another, because (at least politically) the way we do things obviously doesn't work and doesn't give positive results, while their gives.
I feel personally like the West is not helping to unite with the East because regardless of the bad things done by Serbian leaders at the time, there was benefit for the West to make the ill narrative about us.
Yes, a lot of bad things done by Western leaders, a lot of bad things done by Serbian leaders, but I don't see them interfering with anyone uniting, what do you mean? It's just that not enough times passed, war wounds are fresh on all sides.
“對(duì)如果作為塞爾維亞人我們不像西方人那樣生活，那么我們就會(huì)永遠(yuǎn)落后于他們這種想法有什么看法？”
我覺(jué)得，我們并沒(méi)有做到最好。我不認(rèn)為我們應(yīng)該成為西方人，但我認(rèn)為我們應(yīng)該采取在他們的體系中運(yùn)作良好的東西，并嘗試在這里以這種或那種形式實(shí)施，因?yàn)椋ㄖ辽僭谡紊希┪覀兡壳暗捏w系顯然不起作用，不能帶來(lái)積極的結(jié)果，而他們卻能。
“我個(gè)人感覺(jué)，西方國(guó)家不希望東方國(guó)家團(tuán)結(jié)起來(lái)，因?yàn)椴还苋麪柧S亞領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人當(dāng)時(shí)做了什么壞事，西方國(guó)家對(duì)我們進(jìn)行惡意的敘述都是對(duì)他們自己有好處的?！?br /> 是的，西方領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人做了很多壞事，塞爾維亞領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人做了很多壞事，但我沒(méi)有看到他們干涉任何人的團(tuán)結(jié)，你是什么意思？無(wú)法團(tuán)結(jié)只是時(shí)間過(guò)的還不夠長(zhǎng)，各方的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)創(chuàng)傷都還很新。
Well sorry, but that's just babbling now, I mean Russia is an independent country that had every chance to develop, prosper, and become powerful nation with potential to be stronger than much Western countries because of it's vast natural resources, unfortunately for them they chose different path. Unfortunately their political leadership chose different path, path of kleptocracy, corruption and destruction for their own self-benefit. Now they are blaming those mistakes on West. I don't buy it.
“他們好像試圖主宰世界，把他們的價(jià)值觀和文化強(qiáng)加給我們所有人，包括俄羅斯和中國(guó)，而實(shí)際上并不希望我們與他們平起平坐。我很難想象，例如美國(guó)會(huì)希望有一個(gè)民主的俄羅斯，因?yàn)檫@樣他們就會(huì)有一個(gè)他們無(wú)法控制的國(guó)家，或者一個(gè)用“壞蛋”的筆刷來(lái)涂抹的國(guó)家?！?br /> 抱歉，但這是胡說(shuō)八道，我的意思是俄羅斯是一個(gè)獨(dú)立的國(guó)家，有機(jī)會(huì)發(fā)展，繁榮并成為強(qiáng)大的國(guó)家，由于其豐富的自然資源，它有可能比許多西方國(guó)家更強(qiáng)大，不幸的是他們選擇了不同的道路。不幸的是，他們的政治領(lǐng)導(dǎo)層為了一己私利選擇了不同的道路，盜賊統(tǒng)治、腐敗和破壞的道路?，F(xiàn)在他們將這些錯(cuò)誤歸咎于西方。我不買賬。
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No. It depends from person to person. I hate people who generalize as you do. I look down on Serbs who support Vucic. All my friends are from the west.
不，這因人而異。我討厭像你這樣以偏概全的人。我看不起支持武契奇的塞爾維亞人。我所有的朋友都來(lái)自西方。
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Japan
Yes. That's why the West needs to fall, for us and the rest of the world to be finally free. (no /s, I'm serious)
是的，這就是為什么西方需要衰落，為了我們和世界其他地區(qū)最終獲得自由。(沒(méi)有狗頭，我是認(rèn)真的)
Кривомислилац
It depends. Maybe online, we do have a bad history that most aren't or shouldn't be proud of, and we don't really apologize for it, cause we're not responsible for the sins of our parents or grandparents.
So yeah, in that way we're judged since we don't do enough in that regard. For a long time, we've been at crossroads between the east and the west, and the west with all its flaws is better than Russia and China. Sure, our values align more with those states, why, I don't know, post-socialism syndrome and Cold War propaganda.
Most of us just say "screw 'em, they don't know shit" and carry on with our day. As for Serbia becoming more westernized, I think that's inevitable since the US has such a huge cultural influence on the entire world. What happens in the west, comes to Serbia, 10-15 years later, and it's usually not the parts that make it great.
Again, even with its flaws, the west seems freer than its eastern counterparts, and as such, it's lesser than two evils.
這看情況吧。也許在網(wǎng)上是這樣，我們確實(shí)有一段不好的歷史，大多數(shù)人都沒(méi)有或不應(yīng)該為之驕傲，我們也沒(méi)有真正為之道歉，因?yàn)槲覀儾恍枰獮槲覀兊母改富蜃娓改傅淖锬踟?fù)責(zé)。
所以，是的，從這個(gè)角度來(lái)說(shuō)，我們被評(píng)判了，因?yàn)槲覀冊(cè)谶@方面做得不夠好。長(zhǎng)期以來(lái)，我們一直處于東方和西方之間的十字路口，西方雖然有種種缺陷，但比俄羅斯和中國(guó)好。當(dāng)然，我們的價(jià)值觀與這些國(guó)家更加一致，為什么，我不知道，可能是后社會(huì)主義綜合癥和冷戰(zhàn)宣傳。
我們大多數(shù)人只是說(shuō)"去他們的，他們什么都不知道"，然后繼續(xù)我們的日子。至于塞爾維亞變得更加西方化，我認(rèn)為這是不可避免的，因?yàn)槊绹?guó)對(duì)整個(gè)世界有如此巨大的文化影響。在西方發(fā)生的事情，10-15年后就會(huì)出現(xiàn)在塞爾維亞，而且通常不是使其偉大的部分。
同樣，即使有缺陷，西方似乎比其東方的同行更自由，因此，它是兩害相權(quán)取其輕。
Ba?ka Palanka
Come on Keka, not you too. If we separate 90-s wars from rest of our history, it mostly a heroic story of how our people survived numerous oppressors.
你怎么也這樣。如果我們把90年代的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)與我們的其他歷史分開(kāi)，我們的歷史主要是一個(gè)關(guān)于我們的人民如何在無(wú)數(shù)壓迫者面前生存下來(lái)的英雄故事。
Pijem benzin pi?am vatru
"we do have a bad history that most aren't or shouldn't be proud of"
Which bad history is that?
"我們確實(shí)有一段不光彩的歷史，大多數(shù)人都沒(méi)有或不應(yīng)該為之自豪"
那是哪段不好的歷史？
Everytime I hear Serbia mentioned in online discussion it's is always in negative light, especially on Reddit and twitter. Western propaganda machine is very strong these days, we are always described as Russian ally in the news these days to paint is in more negative light.
However it's not our first rodeo by any means. Yugo wars, 1999, same shit. No matter what we do we are the bad guys. You have Croats, Bosnians and Albanians who committed just as much war crimes, if not more, but west is fine with ignoring that.
每次我看到塞爾維亞在網(wǎng)上被討論的時(shí)候，它總是戴著負(fù)面光環(huán)，特別是在Reddit和twitter上。西方的宣傳機(jī)器近來(lái)非常強(qiáng)大，我們總是在新聞中被描述為俄羅斯的盟友，以使我們的形象更加負(fù)面。
然而，這決不是我們的第一次出現(xiàn)在這個(gè)舞臺(tái)上。南斯拉夫內(nèi)戰(zhàn)，1999年，同樣的狗屎被抹在我們身上。無(wú)論我們做什么，我們都是壞人。克羅地亞人、波斯尼亞人和阿爾巴尼亞人，他們犯下了同樣多的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)罪行，甚至更多，但西方卻無(wú)視這些。
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But what we see now is them undermining their own values that made them so successful. All of a sudden racism, sexism, and 100 different kinds of phobias, getting triggered, completely fabricated problems, that were non existent and eradicated decades ago. Now we have in the west that your knowledge or your ability to do something is second place to what your race, sex, and sexual orientation are. And of you disagree with them you are scum, uneducated barbarian, barely above an animal.
So in that climate i am honestly surprised that we are not viewed even worse than we already are.
更大的問(wèn)題的是，我相信未來(lái)的情況會(huì)更糟。西方在60年代、70年代、80年代做得很好，使他們的國(guó)家繁榮。而我們現(xiàn)在看到了這些結(jié)果。在那個(gè)時(shí)期之后出生的人過(guò)著非常舒適和受保護(hù)的生活。以至于他們失去了與現(xiàn)實(shí)的聯(lián)系，把自己交給了猖獗的消費(fèi)主義。他們生活在天堂里，不像這里，在那里即使是最基本的工作也能賺到足夠的錢，讓人們過(guò)上舒適的生活。
但我們現(xiàn)在看到的是他們?cè)谄茐氖顾麄內(nèi)绱顺晒Φ淖约旱膬r(jià)值觀。突然間，種族主義、性別歧視和100種亂七八糟的恐懼癥，被觸發(fā)了，這些完全是捏造的問(wèn)題，而這些問(wèn)題在幾十年前是不存在的，也被根除了?，F(xiàn)在在西方，你的知識(shí)或你的能力是次要的，你的種族、性別和性取向是什么才是重要的。如果你不同意他們的觀點(diǎn)，你就是人渣，沒(méi)有受過(guò)教育的野蠻人，地位勉強(qiáng)高于動(dòng)物。
因此，在這種環(huán)境下，我真的很驚訝我們沒(méi)有被看得比現(xiàn)在更糟糕。