日本漢字故事 -- 為什么日語看起來像一條被打了很多次補(bǔ)丁的褲子? 以至于“褲子”不再存在,只剩下一堆補(bǔ)???
Kanji Story - How Japan Overloaded Chinese Characters譯文簡介
一支視頻,講述日本漢字的歷史,以及學(xué)習(xí)日語如此困難的原因
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As a native-Japanese speaker I do recommend to learn the meanings and origins of kanjis. I see a lot of comments that are saying that you should just memorize it and not go too deep in it. In elementary school they teach us the meanings and the origins of each kanji we learn (we don’t go too deep though). If you are only going to learn how to order food or greet then you don’t need to, but if you really want speak the language, please understand that only memorizing words won’t help you much. You have to know why you use the phrase or you could use it incorrectly. It is tough to learn Japanese.
The Japanese language is like history. According to some research Japanese is considered one of the most hard languages to learn for an English speaker. Of course it depends on people. And I think it is not as hard as the video says but this is an analysis of the language and not a lesson to learn it.
作為一個(gè)母語為日語的人,我建議學(xué)習(xí)漢字的含義和起源。
我看到很多評(píng)論說,你應(yīng)該只是記住它,而不用太深入地了解它。
在小學(xué)里,老師教我們學(xué)習(xí)每個(gè)漢字的含義和起源(不過我們不會(huì)太深入)。
如果你只是要學(xué)習(xí)如何點(diǎn)菜或打招呼,那么你不需要這樣做。
但如果你真的想說這門語言,請(qǐng)明白,只背單詞對(duì)你沒有什么幫助。
你必須知道你為什么要使用這句話,否則你可能會(huì)使用錯(cuò)誤。
學(xué)習(xí)日語很困難。日語就像歷史一樣。
根據(jù)一些研究,日語被認(rèn)為是講英語的人最難學(xué)的語言之一。當(dāng)然,這也取決于人。
我認(rèn)為學(xué)習(xí)日語并不像視頻中說的那樣難,這個(gè)視頻只是對(duì)語言的分析,而非學(xué)習(xí)日語的課程。
If you don't like finding the meanings in kanji, you might as well not learn Japanese at all.
如果你不喜歡在漢字中尋找意義,你還不如根本不學(xué)日語。
What if I'm just listening? Shouldn't matter right? Also lucky me to not be English.
如果我要求不高,只是想聽懂日語呢?應(yīng)該沒關(guān)系吧?
還有,可能我比較幸運(yùn),我的母語不是英語。
Since I know Chinese it makes it so much easier to learn kanji
由于我懂中文,所以學(xué)習(xí)日本漢字非常容易。
Of course it is, Japan is on the opposite side of the world and of a supercontinent from England! Both have similar historical backgrounds of piecing together multiple languages and influences though. The difference is England got conquered by multiple people and a Creole language that stretches across most European language groups was created, while Japan was impenetrable and got to pick and choose what it liked from its neighbors. Honestly, learning the roots of English in the same way you learned Kanji is a historical process that truly helps you understand not just your language, but those around you as well. Like I can now tell which English words or particles of words are Romance vs. Germanic in origin, or even Greek. Japanese is probably even more rich, because it's not just root WORDS it's root PICTOGRAMS.
當(dāng)然是,日本在世界的另一邊,和英國一樣旁邊有一個(gè)超大陸!
兩者都有相似的歷史背景,且將多種語言和影響拼湊在一起。
不同的是,英國被去多人征服過,所以創(chuàng)造出了一種橫跨大多數(shù)歐洲語言群體的克里奧語(混合語),
而由于沒有外族入侵過日本諸島,所以日本可以從鄰國那里挑選自己喜歡的語言。
說實(shí)話,像學(xué)習(xí)漢字一樣學(xué)習(xí)英語的詞根是一個(gè)歷史性的過程,它不僅能真正幫助你理解自己的語言,還能幫助你理解你周圍地區(qū)的語言。
就像我現(xiàn)在可以分辨出英語單詞,亦或其他語言的單詞中的詞根。
我可以看出它是起源于羅曼語、日耳曼語,甚至是希臘語。
日語可能更豐富,因?yàn)樗粌H僅是基于讀音,它還基于象形文字。
how about mandarin? isn't that language one of the hardest as well?
那普通話呢?那種語言不也是最難的嗎?
As an asian, learning to speak japanese is not that hard. Asians go to japan to work and japanese say that they can adapt pretty fast and able to speak fluent japanese in just 3 months or so.. But well, writing it is a completely different story.
作為一個(gè)亞洲人,學(xué)習(xí)說日語并不難。
亞洲人去日本工作,日本人說他們適應(yīng)得很快,3個(gè)月左右就能說一口流利的日語。
但是,寫它是一個(gè)完全不同的故事。
@Terra77 No. Chinese is easy to learn as it is an analytic language with no inflections, singular/plural, gender, and tense. Just straightforward subject-verb-obxt sentence order. So it is easy to learn to speak. However the writing/reading might need more time to get used to.
不,漢語很容易學(xué),因?yàn)樗且环N分析性語言,沒有屈折變化、單復(fù)數(shù)、性別和時(shí)態(tài)。
漢語有簡單明了的主謂賓句序,所以很容易學(xué)會(huì)說話。
然而,閱讀和書寫可能需要更多的時(shí)間來適應(yīng)。
where could i find the story behind each kanji ? is there a website or something ?
在哪里可以找到每個(gè)漢字背后的故事?
有網(wǎng)站什么的嗎?
I love history!But...it looks that this language loves complicate everything.I'll try pick your recommendation.
我愛歷史!但是......
看起來日語喜歡把一切都復(fù)雜化。
我會(huì)嘗試選擇你的建議。
I'm a native Japanese and I tutored many students from around the world when I was in Canadian and the US. Speaking from my experience, I really think Japanese is one of the easiest to become semi-fluent but the hardest to master. It doesn't matter unless you are planning to become a scholar or something, so please don't be scared! Speaking is easy especially for Koreans, South East Asians, Italians, and Spanish. Even if you are English, it'd take only a couple years to become somewhat fluent if you are actually willing to learn.
我是一個(gè)土生土長的日本人,當(dāng)我在加拿大和美國的時(shí)候,我輔導(dǎo)了很多來自世界各地的學(xué)生。
從我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)來說,我真的認(rèn)為,日語是最容易說得半流利的語言,但也是最難掌握的語言之一。
沒關(guān)系,除非你打算成為一個(gè)學(xué)者或什么的,所以請(qǐng)不要害怕!
日語說起來很容易,尤其是韓國人,東南亞人,意大利人和西班牙人。
即使你的母語是英語,如果你真的愿意學(xué)習(xí)的話,也只需要幾年的時(shí)間就可以變得比較流利。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
I'm Japanese.
In real life, the Japanese language is not so difficult, but if I want to know more about it, I need a huge amount of memory.
Japanese is difficult even for Japanese people.
我是日本人。
在真實(shí)的生活中,日語并不難,但如果我想了解更多,我需要大量的記憶。
日語對(duì)日本人來說也很難。
How do people in your society even become fully-literate, seriously? I'm sure the language itself is not that bad, via 'Romanji,' but with the three alphabet systems (especially if Kanji are as bad as he says) it would become way over-complicated. It's hard enough in Mandarin where there is order to it, but he makes it sounds like any hyper-complex order system from Chinese gets scrambled in Japanese! I'd love to learn Japanese because I have a Japanese friend, but woah... too tough!
說真的,在你們的社會(huì)里,人們是如何完全識(shí)字的呢?
我相信由于 "羅馬字母"的存在,學(xué)習(xí)語言本身沒有那么糟糕,
但如果有三個(gè)字母系統(tǒng)(特別是如果漢字像他說的那樣令人頭疼),就會(huì)變得過于復(fù)雜。
普通話已經(jīng)夠難的了,但是它有既定的規(guī)則。
而這個(gè)視屏讓人覺得,任何來源于中文的東西,一旦進(jìn)入日語,與之相關(guān)的規(guī)則都會(huì)被打亂,變得一團(tuán)糟。
我很想學(xué)日語,因?yàn)槲矣幸粋€(gè)日本朋友,但是...... 太難了!
@awakeningspirit20 As some people have already said, don't overthink too much about it. Just like how babies learned, constantly exposing yourself to sentences (or conversation) makes you able to understand the context of different character uses.
正如一些人已經(jīng)說過的,不要想太多。
就像嬰兒學(xué)習(xí)一樣,不斷地讓自己接觸句子或?qū)υ挘屇隳軌蚶斫獠煌址纳舷挛氖褂铆h(huán)境。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
One more point needs to be made: when Japanese schoolchildren are taught to read and write, they already know how to speak; so it's just a question of matching up the words with the characters. All the various readings come in words and combinations that the Japanese child already knows.
The foreign student comes in completely cold: he knows neither the words nor the characters (nor the combinations). Much more complicated.
還有一點(diǎn)需要說明:
當(dāng)日本學(xué)童被教導(dǎo)閱讀和寫作時(shí),他們已經(jīng)知道如何說話;
因此,這只是一個(gè)將單詞與字符匹配的問題。
所有的各種讀法都是日本孩子已經(jīng)知道的單詞和組合。
而外國學(xué)生則是完全陌生的:
他既不知道這些單詞,也不知道這些漢字(或這些漢字的組合)。情況要復(fù)雜得多。
As a Japanese student, if you completely master this writing system, you can read the sentence very fast. Because kanji represents the meanings and Hiragana and Katakana represent only the sound. So it is able to understand rapidly than other languages. However, it uses a lot of energy.
作為一個(gè)日本學(xué)生,如果你完全掌握了這種書寫系統(tǒng),你可以非常快地閱讀句子。
因?yàn)闈h字代表意義,而平假名和片假名只代表聲音。
因此,它比其他語言更容易理解。
然而,學(xué)習(xí)它需要更多的努力。
It isn't true: study showed that Chinese people (even more succinct than Japanese) read between 3 and 4 characters per second on average
This is about the same speed they'd have when reading in English
Although now the limit is only the brain and not the eyes
這不是真的:研究表明,中國人(他們的語言甚至比日本人更簡潔)平均每秒閱讀3到4個(gè)字符。
這和他們用英語閱讀的速度差不多。
雖然現(xiàn)在制約閱讀速度極限是大腦而非眼睛。
After attempting to learn Japanese and Chinese, I was surprised at how easy it was to learn Korean. Or at least I learned to read it, which in large parts of South Korea was enough to read most signs, since most were actually borrowed English words written in Korean. I had a hard time telling taxi drivers where to go, but I was actually able to read the signs on buses and trains to figure out which ones took me nearest to where I was trying to get to.
在嘗試學(xué)習(xí)日語和漢語之后,我驚訝于學(xué)習(xí)韓語是多么容易。
或者可以這么說,至少我學(xué)會(huì)了閱讀它。
在韓國的大部分地區(qū),我現(xiàn)在的水平足以閱讀大多數(shù)標(biāo)志,因?yàn)榇蠖鄶?shù)實(shí)際上是借用韓語寫的英語單詞。
我很難告訴出租車司機(jī)該去哪里,但實(shí)際上我能讀懂公共汽車和火車上的標(biāo)志,并找出坐哪輛車其下車的站點(diǎn)離我要去的地方最近。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Japanese without Kanji is like Chinese pin yin without space, it will still be readable but definitely HELL lol
沒有漢字的日語就像沒有空格的漢語拼音一樣,它仍然可讀,但絕對(duì)是地獄,哈哈。
In this generation it is much easier to learn Japanese, and most languages, than ever before. Namely, you can just access a Japanese Romanji from your smartphone, iPad or just access it from your computer. After you know the basic sounds and pronunciation in Japanese, you can put common sounds together to discovery the Kanji they make. Just type what you would say in Japanese and convert to Kanji, that is very helpful in the beginning
在這一代,學(xué)習(xí)日語和學(xué)習(xí)大多數(shù)其他語言一樣,要比以前容易得多。
也就是說,你可以直接從你的智能手機(jī)、iPad 或直接從你的電腦上輸入日語羅馬字母。
在你知道日語的基本音和發(fā)音后,你可以把常見的聲音放在一起,然后你就能發(fā)現(xiàn)由它們所組成的漢字。
你只需輸入日語中所說的內(nèi)容,就可以轉(zhuǎn)換為漢字,這在剛開始學(xué)習(xí)日語時(shí)非常有幫助。
To me as a native chinese who is learning japanese, kanji is both the easiest and hardest part. For we know what those kanji mean from our mother language but have no idea which japanese pronunciation should be used.
對(duì)我這個(gè)學(xué)日語的中國人來說,漢字是最簡單也是最難的部分。
因?yàn)橛捎谖覀兊哪刚Z是漢語,我們知道那些日本漢字的意思,但我們不知道應(yīng)該用哪種方式發(fā)音。
The worst thing is that when you get used to kanji, you start sneering at katakana and English loanwords.
最糟糕的是,當(dāng)你習(xí)慣了漢字,你開始嘲笑片假名和英語外來詞。
i love kanji. sure, they're hard, but once you make a mental mnemonic for a character and it sinks in, you can guess the meanings of new words you read 90% of the time, even if you don't know the pronunciation.
我喜歡漢字。當(dāng)然,它們很難。
但是一旦你使用某種方法在腦海里記住了它,并且吸收了它的含義。
即使你遇到一個(gè)新單詞,只要這個(gè)單詞里包含了你學(xué)過的漢字 ,你有 90% 的可能性會(huì)猜出這個(gè)新單詞的含義,即使你不知道發(fā)音。
I actually furiously debated once with a Japanese calligrapher because he insisted that my stroke order for a word I wrote (which is eminently important in calligraphy) was wrong, while I KNEW I was right. We both got slightly insulted.
我曾經(jīng)和一位日本書法家激烈地爭(zhēng)論過,因?yàn)樗麍?jiān)持說我寫的一個(gè)字的筆順是錯(cuò)誤的(這在書法中非常重要).
而我知道我是對(duì)的。
我們互相都受到了對(duì)方輕微的侮辱。
Stroke order becomes mostly predictable once you've learned enough characters (where the complex characters mostly just combine simple characters).
一旦你學(xué)會(huì)了足夠多的字符,筆畫順序就變得可以預(yù)測(cè)了(復(fù)雜的字符大多只是簡單字符的組合)。
I know it’s hard to learn Japanese, but once you get it, you’ll be able to read magnificent expressions which I guess unique to Japanese. There is a specific word for “the sunlight that filters through the leaves of trees”. Japanese has lots of words that makes you picture deep, colorful image of meanings. 幽玄、玉響、黃昏 are examples of words that contains deep, meaningful, and majestic scenery behind.
我知道學(xué)日語很難,但是一旦你學(xué)會(huì)了,你就能讀懂那些,我想是日本人才獨(dú)有的華麗的表達(dá)。
有一個(gè)專門的詞來形容“透過樹葉的陽光”。
日語有很多詞能讓你想象出深刻的、豐富多彩的意義和形象。
“幽玄、玉響、黃昏”
上訴詞就是極好的例子。
其漢字背后蘊(yùn)含著深刻、有意義,且雄偉的景色。
祝愿所有的日語學(xué)習(xí)者好運(yùn)!加油!
The trick is to remember that Kanji, unlike in Chinese, aren't always pronounced the same way.
訣竅是,你需要要記住,日本漢字,不像中文,并不總是以同樣的方式發(fā)音。
that's why I love japanese and chinese languages. If I could I'd study them my whole life
所以我喜歡日語和漢語。如果可以的話,我愿意一輩子研究它們。
Kanji is necessary to japanese reading, because have many similar words with diferent meanings and have many words with complex meanings, but is very beautiful and turns japanese language unique
漢字是閱讀日語所必須的,因?yàn)槿照Z中有許同音異意詞,也有許多含義非常復(fù)雜的詞。
但漢字非常漂亮,使得日本語言變得非常獨(dú)特。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Most of these characters still kept the original meaning. That makes the Japan a popular destination for the Chinese to travel, as you could basically understand the written messages.
這些漢字大多保留了原來的意思。
這使得日本成為中國人旅行的熱門目的地,因?yàn)槟慊旧峡梢岳斫鉂h字的信息。
I struggle with kanji all the time but.... trying to read a Japanese sentence without kanji is a pain. so I still love kanji
我一直在和漢字斗爭(zhēng),但是......
試著讀一個(gè)沒有漢字的日語句子是一件痛苦的事。
所以我還是喜歡漢字。
After I learned both hiragana and katakana characters, I started learning kanji and how three of them incorporated to form a sentence, I immediately realized what I have gotten myself into and I was like "oh boy do I have a long long way ahead of me".
在我學(xué)會(huì)了平假名和片假名字符后,我開始學(xué)習(xí)漢字,以及如何將上述三者合并成一個(gè)句子。
我立即意識(shí)到我掉進(jìn)了一個(gè)大坑,我就像:
“哦,男孩,我還有很長的路要走?!?/b>
Yup, that about sums it up. Been learning Japanese for almost 5 years now. Still massively struggling with kanji, I know about 1500? Maybe? Still got about another 500 just to be able to walk myself around Japan without looking like a chicken with it's head cut off. But let me put you out some ease, actual spoken conversations are so much easier. Maybe it's just me but spoken Japanese is easier than spoken Spanish, and I'm native English.
是的,差不多就是這樣。
我學(xué)習(xí)日語已經(jīng)快5年了,還在為漢字而掙扎。
我知道大約1500個(gè)漢字?大概吧?
我還需要學(xué)習(xí)500個(gè),只是為了能在日本到處走走,而不像一只被砍掉頭的雞。
但讓我還是會(huì)給你點(diǎn)好消息,讓你松口氣。
其實(shí),用日語對(duì)話實(shí)際上要容易得多。
也許只是我,但學(xué)會(huì)日語口語,要比學(xué)會(huì)西班牙語口語容易的多,我的母語是英語。
i studied japonology for 2 semesters. the pronounciation and logic of japanese is very easy in my opinion. no joke i think japanese as a language is one of the most logical. it has clear rules. what kills people is kanji because you have to be very dedicated to learn it
學(xué)了兩個(gè)學(xué)期的日本學(xué)。日語的發(fā)音和邏輯在我看來很簡單。
不開玩笑,我認(rèn)為日語是最符合邏輯的語言之一,它有明確的規(guī)則。
但是日本漢字是致命的,因?yàn)槟惚仨毞浅W⒌厝W(xué)習(xí)它。
Japanese is such an easy language to speak and yet the writing system goes completely over my head besides hiragana and katakana
日語是一種很容易說的語言,但是日語的書寫系統(tǒng)......
平假名和片假名還好點(diǎn),漢字完成超出了我的理解范圍。
there are some guys around me who intended to be interested in Chinese characters in Japanese and started to study Japanese. but they don't know those characters come from Chinese. after a while of study. they started to study Chinese..
我身邊有一些人,他們對(duì)日語中的漢字感興趣,開始學(xué)習(xí)日語。
但他們不知道這些字來自中文。
經(jīng)過一段時(shí)間的學(xué)習(xí)。他們又開始學(xué)習(xí)漢語。
This is why Koreans made their own writing system
這就是為什么韓國人創(chuàng)造了自己的書寫系統(tǒng)。
People in Korea and Vietnam mainly used Chinese characters before WWII. The history of using Chinese characters in Korea and Vietnam is more than 1000 years, Korea and Vietnam gave up Chinese characters after WWII because of the fall of China. Korean surnames/names are similar to Chinese surnames/names. When Koreans gave up Kanji, they cannot know the meaning of their names. But Japanese still use Kanji in their names, so all characters of Japanese names are meaningful like Chinese names.
韓國和越南在二戰(zhàn)前主要使用漢字。
韓國和越南使用漢字已有1000多年的歷史,二戰(zhàn)后由于中國的衰落,韓國和越南放棄了漢字。
韓國人的姓/名與中國人的姓/名相似。
當(dāng)韓國人放棄漢字時(shí),他們無法知道自己名字的含義。
但是日本人仍然在他們的名字中使用漢字,所以日本名字的所有字符都像中國名字一樣有意義。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Once I studied Japanese , for 6 months. I gave up when I realized it would be IMPOSSIBLE to master the language. This mainly due to the kanji writing system.
曾經(jīng)我學(xué)了六個(gè)月的日語。
當(dāng)我意識(shí)到掌握這門語言對(duì)我來說是完不成的任務(wù)時(shí),我放棄了。
這主要是由于漢字書寫系統(tǒng)。
God Almighty, I'm glad I didn't see this before I started learning kanji (43 years ago).
I just learned them and took them as they came. End of story. Why tell beginners every single teeny tiny detail about the Japanese kanji system at the beginning? Kind of like telling a six-year old all about calculus when he is learning how to add single-digit numbers, There's an order to learning, and videos like this just make things more confusing than they need to be. But you do sound like you're having fun...
萬能的上帝,我很高興我在開始學(xué)習(xí)漢字之前(43年前)沒有看到這個(gè)視頻。
我只學(xué)習(xí)了它們,然后學(xué)會(huì)了它們,故事結(jié)束。
為什么一開始就告訴初學(xué)者關(guān)于日本漢字系統(tǒng)的每一個(gè)微小的細(xì)節(jié)?
這有點(diǎn)像一個(gè)六歲的孩子,當(dāng)他正在學(xué)習(xí)如何數(shù)數(shù)時(shí),你跟他講什么是微積分?
學(xué)習(xí)是有順序的,像這樣的視頻只會(huì)讓事情變得更加混亂。
但你做這個(gè)視頻的時(shí)候,看起來很開心......
I think this video, among his other ones, are for linguistics enthusiasts, not for language learners.
他還有很多其他視頻,我認(rèn)為這段視頻是為語言學(xué)愛好者準(zhǔn)備的,而不是為語言學(xué)習(xí)者準(zhǔn)備的。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
The more I see the more confused I get. Thanks to NativLang. Didn't know things are so complicated.
我看得越多就越糊涂。
感謝 up 主,沒想到事情這么復(fù)雜。
Why is the Japanese language starting to sound to me like a pair of pants that has been patched so many times that the "pants" no longer exist and merely a collection of patches in the form of pants remains?
為什么日語看起來像一條被打了很多次補(bǔ)丁的褲子?
以至于“褲子”不再存在,只剩下一堆補(bǔ)丁?
That is the best way to discribe...
這是對(duì)日語最形象的描述方式…...
Love this... It's like a horror movie... but better!
喜歡這個(gè)...... 就像恐怖片...... 但更好!
I very easily learned the kana parts of Japanese but as soon as I got to kanji I just wanted to crawl into a hole and die because it's far too complicated
我很容易就學(xué)會(huì)了日語的假名部分。
但當(dāng)我一學(xué)漢字,我還不如爬進(jìn)一個(gè)洞里去等死,因?yàn)樗珡?fù)雜了。