有神論者稱“沒有超過12000年的書面文件，所以上帝存在”，無神論者駁斥

Mike
What has the written word to do with a belief in God? If the concept was true, then he was here long before the written word. Religion is a belief; as it has to be. Nothing claimed by religions has ever been proven. It requires you to believe it. I don’t. It’s just a way humans have developed to counter the fear of death. But if it gives you satisfaction, then go for it.

書面文字與信仰上帝有什么關(guān)系?如果這個概念是正確的，那么他早在書面文字出現(xiàn)之前就存在了。宗教是一種信仰;這是必須的。宗教所宣稱的一切都沒有得到證實。它需要你去相信它。我不喜歡。這只是人類對抗死亡恐懼的一種方式。但如果它能給你滿足感，那就去做吧。

Daniel Furaitar to Mike
I believe, but also with you on this. So what about the written word? Never understand this conflict either.

我相信，但也與你在這方面想的一樣。那么書面文字呢?永遠也不能理解這種矛盾。

Mike to Daniel Furaitar
I don’t know what others think this is; but I was referring to literally writing. Being able to record your thoughts. The Sumerian scxt from 3,400BC is the oldest currently acknowledged. That pre-dates Christianity just a tad. People had Gods and worshiped then too.

我不知道其他人是怎么想的;但我指的是字面上的寫作。能夠記錄你的想法。公元前3400年的蘇美爾文字是目前公認的最古老的文字。這比基督教還要早一點。那時人們有神，也崇拜神。

David Chan to Mike
I disagree that the aboriginal art is not a record of someone's thought. You just do not know how to decode it! Look, , if you look at a piece of hieroglyphics, would you know whether it is a record of profound thought or an accounting entry?

我不同意原住民藝術(shù)不是某人思想的記錄。你只是不知道如何解碼!看，如果你看一塊象形文字，你能知道它是深刻思想的記錄還是會計記錄（記賬的記錄）嗎? ?

Mary Gentle to David Chan
I’d bet on the accounting entry, but that’s because I know so many Sumerian chicken-scratch tablets are about taxes, and I imagine Egypt is comparable? There are very few Enuma Elish and Gilgamesh out there.
But, what I think you’re doing is blurring the line between writing and painting/drawing.
We have cave pictures, and heiroglyphs, that are much older than homo sapiens. They were done by Neanderthals, and homo heidelbergensis, I believe.
Not that I think the OP really has an idea that there was more than one human race around, and that more than homo sapiens were capable of symbolic recording. But there are some things we can’t translate because we don’t have a Rosetta Stone (e.g. the Harappan language), and some things we can’t translate because we’ll never have a way to know what it means. The Western Australian images could be Munch’s ‘Scream’, or they could be ‘Kilroy was here’ — there’s no way to judge.

我敢打賭是會計記錄，但那是因為我知道很多蘇美爾人的雞爪（形容不整潔且難以閱讀的寫作）泥板都是關(guān)于稅收的，我想埃及也差不多吧?很少有“創(chuàng)世的七塊泥板”和“吉爾伽美什史詩”（都是美索不達米亞的史詩）。
但是，我認為你正在模糊寫作和繪畫之間的界限。
我們有洞穴壁畫和象形文字，它們比智人更古老。那是尼安德特人畫的，或者是海德堡人畫的，我想。
我并不認為發(fā)帖者真的認為世界上有不止一個人類種族，也不是只有智人有能力進行符號記錄。但有些東西我們無法翻譯，因為我們沒有羅塞塔石碑(例如哈拉帕語)，有些東西我們無法翻譯，因為我們永遠都沒有辦法知道它的意思。西澳大利亞的圖像可能是蒙克的“尖叫”，也可能是“基洛在這里”——沒有辦法判斷。

Shayna Punim to Mike
While religion may have that outcome, the function of religion is to instill growth oriented behaviors in a culture.
Social Evolution requires good behavior to overcome any social hazard the environment presents and therefore religion is the owner of morality.
All cultures are trying to grow therefore all religions are in conflict with all other religions!

雖然宗教可能會有這樣的結(jié)果，但宗教的功能是在文化中灌輸以成長導向行為。
社會進化需要良好的行為來克服環(huán)境帶來的任何社會危害，因此宗教是道德的主人。
所有的文化都在努力發(fā)展，因此所有的宗教都與其他宗教發(fā)生沖突!
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處

Wesley Smith
They simply deny things are that old.
“Can't trust carbon dating!!”
“Can't prove how old they are!”
Like that.

他們只是否認事物有那么古老。
“不能相信碳測年法!!”
“無法證明它們的年齡!”
就像這樣。

Imran Roy to Wesley Smith
The same science that builds computers and smartphones is the one that uses carbon dating.
If one denounces science on one front, they should at least be honest enough to not use the devices built with the same scientific principles.
Religion detests hypocrisy before anything else. Modern religious fanatics are a shame for their religions.

制造電腦和智能手機的科學就是使用碳年代測定法的科學。
如果有人在某一方面譴責科學，他們至少應(yīng)該足夠誠實，不要使用用同樣的科學原理建造的設(shè)備。
宗教最痛恨虛偽?，F(xiàn)代宗教狂熱分子是他們宗教的恥辱。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處

Wesley Smith
I tried that line of reasoning years ago when my father was Born Again and decided everything in the bible was 100% true. The are taught apologetic excuses (that are lame) that somehow make gross hypocrisy ok.
The man made a six figure income in the tech industry, worked with computers since the seventies. Religion is mental illness for the believer and a tool of mind control and opression.
Life is just physics and chemistry.

我?guī)啄昵霸囘^這樣的邏輯，如果當我父親復活時，我就認為圣經(jīng)中的一切都是100%真實的。他們被教導道歉的借口(很蹩腳)，這在某種程度上讓嚴重的虛偽變得可以接受。
我的父親在科技行業(yè)賺了六位數(shù)的收入，從70年代開始就從事計算機工作。宗教是信徒的精神疾病，是精神控制和壓迫的工具。
生命只是物理和化學。

Imran Roy
Haha. If religion is a mental illness, then I'm one of the critically ill.
The purpose of religion is to answer questions which science cannot. It gives a direction and meaning to life. Religion was never meant to be a substitute for geology or physics or biology. If someone tries to do that, they will fall headlong on concrete.
Most of the prominent Arab scientists were devout Musli.... One of the scientists who proved proton decay (Dr Abdussalam) was a devout Muslim.
One of the brightest minds in mathematics ever born (Chandrasekhar Ramanujan) was a devout Hindu.
Those people knew better about science and mathematics than your average fanatical atheist. I am a science journalist and I can dare say I too, know slightly more about certain scientific topics than your average fanatical atheist.
Thing is, you cannot substitute religion for science or science for religion. Doing either is a stupid idea and bound to fail.

哈哈。如果宗教是一種精神疾病，那么我就是病入膏肓的人之一。
宗教的目的是回答科學不能回答的問題。它給人生指明了方向和意義。宗教從來就不是地質(zhì)學、物理學或生物學的替代品。如果有人試圖這么做，他們會一頭栽在水泥地上。
大多數(shù)杰出的阿拉伯科學家都是虔誠的穆斯林。其中一位證明質(zhì)子衰變的科學家(Abdussalam博士)是一位虔誠的穆斯林。
有史以來最聰明的數(shù)學頭腦之一(錢德拉塞卡·拉馬努金)是一個虔誠的印度教徒。
這些人比一般的狂熱無神論者更懂科學和數(shù)學。我是一名科學記者，我也敢說，我對某些科學話題的了解比一般的狂熱無神論者略勝一籌。
問題是，你不能用宗教代替科學，也不能用科學代替宗教。只做任何一件事都是愚蠢的想法，注定會失敗。

Peter Kaye
Hahahahaha, religion IS hypocrisy, the bible contradicts itself continuously in the first two pages of the Old Testament that’s the main reason I threw it as far as I could when I was 14.

哈哈哈，宗教是虛偽的，圣經(jīng)在舊約的前兩頁一直自相矛盾，這就是我在14歲的時候就盡可能把它扔得遠遠的主要原因。

Imran Roy to Peter Kaye
Religion itself is not hypocrisy.
Ignorant religious fanatics make it appear so.
Religion was never meant to be a substitute for science. If someone tries that, they will fail.
Keep religion at its place and science at its place and both will get along really smoothly. If you try to substitute one for the other, things will start falling apart.
And Christianity isn't the only religion out there. The failure of one specific religion doesn't mean all religions are hypocritical or a failure.

宗教本身并不是虛偽的。
是無知的宗教狂熱分子讓它看起來如此。
宗教從來就不是科學的替代品。如果有人嘗試那樣做，他們會失敗。
把宗教和科學放在自己的位置上，兩者都會很順利地相處。如果你試圖用一個來代替另一個，事情就會開始分崩離析。
基督教并不是唯一的宗教。一個特定宗教的失敗并不意味著所有宗教都是虛偽的或失敗的。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處

Trev Doyle
How can atheism be false? Impossible. I know unequivocally that it exists.

無神論怎么可能是錯誤的呢?不可能的。我清楚地知道它的存在。

Dan Johns
Or even the 40000 yr old cave of hands


甚至是40000年前的手印洞穴

Alex Thornton
I can just imagine the bunching of rosary scarred fists, and mouth contorted in pious gnashing rage….

我可以想象傷痕累累的拳頭緊握一串念珠，和扭曲的嘴在虔誠的咬牙憤怒....

Clanger Invasion
Religions are creations with a sociological and psychological purpose, they are our own inventions, thats all they are. its is all they will ever be. they will change.
That does not denigrate from them, their utility or purpose, but they are what they are.
Having faith in them is a matter of utility, and thats a choice, not an absolute. sexting the absolute is a political act.
So, just don’t go trying to justify the abstract and complete rambling codswallop which you know it outside the realm of a choice of faith.
It’s a question of given rather than realised identity, and that’s become important. Its shows whether somone is capable of comprehending what the world is and what it’s about.
You have at least 5 kinds of identity, but let’s not go there right now.
If you didn’t make the choice about religion, or cannot comprehend a balance of utility vs reality, have a word with yourself, because you don’t know who or what you are.
The hardest choice is atheism, for the reason that you don’t get the easy codex to follow, all laid out for you. You have to contemplate, rationalise, discover and define. You aren’t just taking someone else’s word for it. You don’t get the comforts of familiarity. You dientity is one you must define by what you do and become. It’s not for the lazy person.

宗教是帶有社會學和心理學目的的創(chuàng)造物，它們是我們自己的發(fā)明，僅此而已。他們永遠都是這樣。他們也會改變的。
這并不是詆毀他們，他們的效用或目的，但他們就是他們。
相信他們是一個實用的問題，這是一種選擇，而不是絕對的。選擇絕對是一種政治行為。
所以，不要試圖證明那些抽象的、完全的、漫無邊際的胡說八道，因為你知道它超出了信仰選擇的范疇。
這是一個給定身份的問題，而不是實現(xiàn)身份的問題，這變得很重要。它顯示了一個人是否有能力理解這個世界是什么，它是關(guān)于什么的。
你至少有5種身份，但我們現(xiàn)在先不談這個。
如果你沒有選擇宗教，或者不能理解功利與現(xiàn)實的平衡，和你自己說句話，因為你不知道你是誰或你是什么。
最難的選擇是無神論，原因是你沒有簡單的抄本，都擺在你面前。你必須思考、合理化、發(fā)現(xiàn)和定義。你不能只相信別人的話。你不會因為熟悉而感到舒適。你的身份是你必須通過你所做的事情和成為的人來定義的。它不適合懶人。

Colin Wright
Cave painting is written documentation of available game, who had been there previously and probably a lot more information we hadn't considered useful for early man.

洞穴壁畫是可獲得的游戲書面記錄，之前有人去過那里，可能有更多我們認為對早期人類沒有用處的信息。

Derek Jackett to Colin Wright
Well in terms of some European cave paintings of animals there was a sort of proto writing in that some of the markings conveyed information on when young easier to hunt animals would be born. Also some of the information might have been used to help train children on what to expect on a hunt as well.
Others seem to have been for want of better phrasing votive works to help keep the world in order. But we are talking 20,000 years ago information produced by people as smart as we are but living in a very different world with a different world view. Still it does allows us to know more about them even if we do not understand everything it tries to say.

就一些歐洲洞穴動物繪畫而言，那里有一種原始的文字，因為一些標記傳達了容易捕獵的年輕動物何時出生的信息。還有一些信息可能被用來幫助訓練孩子們知道在狩獵中會發(fā)生什么。
另一些人似乎是想要更好地表達祈愿，以幫助維持世界秩序。但我們說的是2萬年前的信息，這些信息是由和我們一樣聰明的人產(chǎn)生的，但他們生活在一個完全不同的世界，有著不同的世界觀。盡管如此，它確實讓我們更多地了解它們，即使我們不理解它試圖說的一切。

Eugene Blinn
Anything you bring up that contradicts a zealot’s religious views will be met with “God put that there to test our faith”
in other words - any “argument” with one of these people ALWAYS ends in a stalemate

你提出的任何與狂熱者的宗教觀點相矛盾的事情都會被回應(yīng)為“上帝放在那里是為了考驗我們的信仰”
換句話說，任何與這些人的“爭論”總是以僵局告終