調(diào)查發(fā)現(xiàn)，英國皇家空軍為了促進(jìn)多樣性，違法歧視白人男性新兵

TheSwedishSwingBox
I feel uncomfortable about diversity recruitment. White men are the majority of men in this country - preventing them from being able to make a living in their own country is wild, it makes no sense and encourages I'll feelings toward a community.
I am part of a minority community, and I feel uncomfortable about these. Best Get rid of racist staff and hire on merit.
That way the racists themselves can't use their position to create a institutional racism issue.
Sometimes, I feel as if these policies are indirectly enforced to stir up division amongst groups.

我對多元化招募感到不爽。白人男性在這個(gè)國家占大多數(shù)——阻止他們在自己的國家謀生是瘋狂的，這是沒有道理的，而且會刺激我對某個(gè)群體的情感。
我是少數(shù)族裔社區(qū)的一員，對此我感到不舒服。最好擺脫有種族歧視的成員，按照能力大小來招募。
這樣一來，種族主義者自己就無法利用他們的身份來制造一個(gè)制度性的種族主義問題了。
有時(shí)，我覺得這些政策似乎是在間接地挑起群體之間的分裂。
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slaitaar
The fact is by setting quotas or diversity %, you're just patronising and disabling the very groups yiure attempting to help, while doing massive harm to the country overall.
Look at the % of media representation in UK TV channels now. If you'd guessed that the British population was represented fairly, then there are times when less than 50% of the population is white and/or straight.

事實(shí)是，通過設(shè)定配額或多樣性百分比，你只是在傲慢地對待和禁用你試圖幫助的群體，同時(shí)對整個(gè)國家造成巨大傷害。
看看現(xiàn)在英國電視頻道的媒體比例吧。如果你認(rèn)為英國人口是被公平代表的，那么有時(shí)只有不到50%的人口是白人和/或異性戀。（譯注：指少數(shù)群體的代表比例過高）

Longirl
This has been going on for decades in this country. My ex was a fireman in the early 2000s and they were following this exact pattern for recruitment. I also remember going with a friend to the council offices after he became homeless and their exact words were ‘I’m sorry but we can’t help young healthy British men be rehomed’. Poor guy was only 18, this would have happened around 1998.

這種情況在這個(gè)國家已經(jīng)持續(xù)了幾十年。我的前夫在21世紀(jì)初是一名消防員，他們的招募方式就是這樣的。我還記得在一個(gè)朋友無家可歸后，我和他一起去了議會辦公室，他們的原話是“很抱歉，我們無法幫助年輕健康的英國人被重新安置?！蹦莻€(gè)可憐的家伙才18歲，這應(yīng)該發(fā)生在1998年左右。

RisHorro544
Stuff like this is why far-right sentiment is growing in the UK.
For years the left has screamed that discrimination against white men is a "far right racist conspiracy theory", and then of course it turns out to be true, therefore making the far right look credible and the left look like naive idiots at best and malicious liars at worst.

像這樣的事情就是極右翼情緒在英國蔓延的原因。
多年來，左派一直尖叫著“對白人男性的歧視是一種‘極右翼種族主義陰謀論’”，當(dāng)然，事實(shí)證明這是真的，因此，極右翼看起來可信，左派看起來像天真的白癡（往壞了講是惡意的騙子）。

YesIAmRightWingmillenial home owner...
I mean I've seen companies have been doing this seen I entered the workforce in 2014.
It was done openly and advertised publicly.
The people who do it think their doing a good thing.
I remember arguing with a guy because in my sector there aren't many Asians.
He just couldn't understand why I didn't want more Asians in the sector.
But he also couldn't understand that I didn't give a shit about the number of Asians in X sector and it wouldn't make any real difference

我想說，自從我2014年進(jìn)入職場以來，我就看到很多公司一直在這么做。
這是公開進(jìn)行的，并公開做了廣告。
干這事的人認(rèn)為他們是在做一件好事。
我記得我和一個(gè)人吵過架，因?yàn)槲宜诘牟块T沒有多少亞洲裔。
他就是不明白為什么我不想讓更多的亞洲裔進(jìn)入這個(gè)行業(yè)。
但他也不能理解，我其實(shí)根本不在乎X部門有多少亞洲裔，并且有多少亞洲裔也不會造成什么真正的區(qū)別

Ayearinbooks
I think two really important points that some people are missing below.
First, Goodharts Law, 'When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure'. It's not unreasonable to ask questions about race/sex disparities but when you set a target, even aside from unfairness and illegality, it's likely to have perverse consequences. So in the US affirmative action case - fewer than 50% of the black students who get into elite universities are born of black US parents (i.e. the group with the big structural disadvantage people are concerned about). The approach instead smooths the way e.g. recent Nigerian immigrants who don't share that background.
Second, in these discussions there's some naivety about what's 'allowed' and how relevant that is. People respond to incentives bounded only somewhat by rules (whether due to principle or fear of getting caught). So it's illegal to discriminate against a 30 year old woman on the grounds she might take maternity leave - but it's usually really hard to prove and if you're a small business owner incentivises by economic self interest you mighy. Similarly it's illegal to choose a worse qualified person because of their race - but it's usually really hard to prove.
If you are seriously concerned to stop these forms of discrimination, pretty much the only way is to remove the incentive (so in first case govt pays full cost of parental leave and/or mandates men and women get samr amount, which I think is done in some Scandinavian countries; in second case not using crude 'pay gaps' etc that drive perverse incentives)

我認(rèn)為有些人忽略了兩個(gè)非常重要的點(diǎn)。
首先是古德哈特定律，“當(dāng)一項(xiàng)措施成為目標(biāo)時(shí)，它就不再是一項(xiàng)好措施了”。提出關(guān)于種族/性別差異的問題并不是不合理的，但當(dāng)你設(shè)定了一個(gè)目標(biāo)時(shí)，即使不考慮不公平和不合法，也很可能產(chǎn)生反常的后果。因此，在美國平權(quán)法案的案例中，進(jìn)入精英大學(xué)的黑人學(xué)生中，只有不到50%的人出生于美國黑人父母（即人們所關(guān)注的具有巨大結(jié)構(gòu)性劣勢的群體）。相反，這種方法為那些沒有相同背景的尼日利亞新移民鋪平了道路。
其次，在這些討論中，關(guān)于什么是“允許的”以及它的相關(guān)性有些天真。人們對激勵(lì)的反應(yīng)只在一定程度上受到規(guī)則的限制（無論是出于原則還是害怕被抓到）。因此，以一個(gè)30歲的女人“可能休產(chǎn)假”為由歧視她是非法的——但這通常很難證明，如果你是一個(gè)小企業(yè)主，你可能會受到經(jīng)濟(jì)利益的激勵(lì)。同樣，因?yàn)榉N族而選擇資質(zhì)較差的人也是違法的——但這通常很難證明。
如果你真的想阻止這些形式的歧視，唯一的方法就是消除這種激勵(lì)（所以在第一種情況下，政府支付育兒假的全部費(fèi)用和/或規(guī)定男性和女性獲得相同的產(chǎn)假，我認(rèn)為在一些斯堪的納維亞國家就是這樣做的；第二種情況是，不要使用粗獷的“薪酬差距”等等，這會帶來不正當(dāng)?shù)募?lì)。）

moreat10
Oh boy I can't wait for the idealogues to use this policy error as a justification for their hair brained personal beliefs they got from YouTube.

哦，天哪，我等不及理想主義者用這個(gè)政策錯(cuò)誤來為他們從YouTube上得到的愚蠢的個(gè)人信仰辯護(hù)了。
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DonAdzII
How many times is this story going to keep getting recycled?
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
This country is broken and to be frank we deserve it.

這個(gè)故事還會被重復(fù)講多少次？
有那么多更重要的問題需要解決，而我們卻癡迷于種族關(guān)系。
這個(gè)國家已經(jīng)支離破碎，并且坦白說，我們活該。

Person_of_EarthLocation: Irrelevant sate-seat
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
There is so much wrong with this sentence that I don't know where to begin.
Firstly, if you look at racism from the lenses of 'race relations', then you are looking at it completely wrong. Ethnic minorities are the victims of systemic racist societal structures, and thus are the victims. You wouldn't look at the justice system as 'victim-criminal relations', so why would you look at racism through the lens of 'race relations'?
Secondly, racism is a very serious issue. To claim that it isn't would imply that the rights of ethnic minorities don't matter as much as the rights of white people, which in itself is racist.

“有那么多更重要的問題需要解決，而我們卻癡迷于種族關(guān)系”
這句話錯(cuò)得太多了，我都不知道從哪里開始糾正了。
首先，如果你從“種族關(guān)系”的角度來看待種族主義，那么你就完全錯(cuò)了。少數(shù)族裔是系統(tǒng)性種族主義社會結(jié)構(gòu)的受害者，因此他們是受害者。既然你不會把司法系統(tǒng)看作“受害者與罪犯的關(guān)系”，那么你為什么要通過“種族關(guān)系”的視角來看待種族主義呢？
其次，種族主義是一個(gè)非常嚴(yán)重的問題。聲稱它不是，是在暗示少數(shù)族裔的權(quán)利不如白人的權(quán)利重要，而這本身就是種族主義。

ChinDick
I can sort of understand applying positive discrimination to other jobs, like office work, public sector jobs etc, but doing it for the armed forces is bonkers.
It shouldn’t matter what race or gender you are when you’re job is defend the realm and potentially die in doing so. You want the best people who are willing to volunteer their lives.
It’s especially stupid to discriminate against the biggest talent pool available to the forces (white males), whom historically are exactly what the forces need. They’ve chastised the most likely recruits and it wouldn’t surprise me to see RAF recruitment numbers drop in the next few years

我有點(diǎn)理解將積極歧視應(yīng)用于其他工作崗位，比如辦公室工作、公共部門工作等等，但在軍隊(duì)中這樣做是瘋狂的。
當(dāng)你的工作是保衛(wèi)王國，并可能因此喪命時(shí)，你是什么種族或性別都不重要。你需要的是愿意獻(xiàn)出自己生命的最優(yōu)秀的人。
歧視軍隊(duì)最大的人才庫（白人男性）是特別愚蠢的，從歷史上看，他們正是軍隊(duì)所需要的。他們已經(jīng)（通過報(bào)道中的違法行為）懲罰了最有可能的新兵，我不會驚訝地看到英國皇家空軍的新兵數(shù)量在接下來的幾年里下降

HettySwollocks
This is a major issue across all industries. I understand where it's coming from and it's commendable but now we're in a situation where white = bad. I've sat in board meeting hearing how we must hire people of X,Y, Z instead of the most appropriate candidate. I've seen it time and time again and it fucking infuriates me.
This woke bullshit needs to end

這是所有行業(yè)的一個(gè)主要問題。我明白這是怎么來的，這也是值得贊揚(yáng)的，但現(xiàn)在我們的情況是，白人 = 壞。我曾在董事會上聽到我們必須雇用某某人，某某人，某某人，而不是最合適的人選。我一次又一次地看到這種情況，這tmd激怒了我。
這扯淡的矯枉過正該結(jié)束了

imshitatbjj
This exact thing happened to me 6 years ago when I applied for the police. I posted about it here on Reddit.
I was literally denied a job in the police because I wasn't from a BAME background. Disgusting.
I am glad this discrimination is being seen now for what it really is.

六年前當(dāng)我申請當(dāng)警察的時(shí)候，同樣的事情也發(fā)生在我身上。我把經(jīng)歷貼在了紅迪上。
我被拒絕了一份警察工作，因?yàn)槲覜]有“面臨種族歧視”的背景。真惡心。
我很高興這種歧視現(xiàn)在被人們看出了它的本質(zhì)。

GeronimoSonjack
Who wants this? Who demands it? Where is this ridiculous concerted effort across society to advocate for racism against whites and sexism against men ultimately coming from?

誰想要這個(gè)？是誰要求的？這種荒謬的全社會共同倡導(dǎo)針對白人的種族主義和針對男性的性別歧視的努力到底是從哪里來的？

zwifter11
I can see why the RAF did this when they’re majority white male, unproportionate to society. And there’s literally no black or asian pilots.
I wouldn’t say it’s racism against whites. It’s ensuring the organisation reflects its society. It’s wrong to say no black or asian person could do the job, when they do for airlines.

我明白為什么英國皇家空軍這樣做，因?yàn)樗麄兇蟛糠质前兹四行?，與社會的種族比例不相符。而且根本沒有黑人或亞裔飛行員。
我不會說這是對白人的種族歧視。它正在確保這個(gè)組織能反映社會的種族構(gòu)成。當(dāng)黑人或亞洲裔在為航空公司工作時(shí)，說他們不能勝任這份（空軍飛行員）工作是錯(cuò)誤的。

GeronimoSonjack
It's literally, unambiguously racism against whites. I don't know how anyone could sincerely look at this and claim otherwise.

毫無疑問，這就是針對白人的種族主義。我不知道怎么會有人真誠地看待這一點(diǎn)，卻聲稱不是這樣。

fudgedhobnobs
How’s the culture war going, lads?

文化戰(zhàn)爭打得怎么樣了，伙計(jì)們？

fatolddog
The most disadvantaged group in the UK are working class white men.
The UK doesn't have a race problem, it has a class problem.

英國最弱勢的群體是白人工人階級。
英國沒有種族問題，有的是階級問題。

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