英國脫歐后,英國選民希望與歐盟建立更緊密的關(guān)系
UK voters want closer relationship with EU in ‘significant’ shift since Brexit譯文簡介
“歐盟會說:不了,謝謝,我們已經(jīng)受夠了你們對一切的抱怨?!薄缎l(wèi)報》報道。
正文翻譯
UK voters want closer relationship with EU in ‘significant’ shift since Brexit
-Major study finds public see ties with Europe as more important than lixs with US and many ‘exhausted’ by ‘toxic’ debate
英國脫歐后,英國選民希望與歐盟建立更緊密的關(guān)系
——一項重大研究發(fā)現(xiàn),公眾認為與歐洲的關(guān)系比與美國的關(guān)系更重要,許多人被“有毒”的辯論“耗盡精力”
-Major study finds public see ties with Europe as more important than lixs with US and many ‘exhausted’ by ‘toxic’ debate
英國脫歐后,英國選民希望與歐盟建立更緊密的關(guān)系
——一項重大研究發(fā)現(xiàn),公眾認為與歐洲的關(guān)系比與美國的關(guān)系更重要,許多人被“有毒”的辯論“耗盡精力”
(Protesters gather in front of the Foreign Office and Downing Street, demanding a new election and the UK's rejoining of the EU.)
(抗議者聚集在外交部和唐寧街前,要求舉行新的選舉,并要求英國重新加入歐盟。)
新聞:
Almost twice as many UK voters now believe a close relationship with the EU is more important for peace, prosperity and security than ties with the US, according to a major new study of post-Brexit attitudes.
一項針對英國脫歐后態(tài)度的重要新研究顯示,如今認為與歐盟保持密切關(guān)系比與美國保持密切關(guān)系對和平、繁榮和安全更重要的英國選民數(shù)量幾乎是持相反觀點的英國選民的兩倍。
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一項針對英國脫歐后態(tài)度的重要新研究顯示,如今認為與歐盟保持密切關(guān)系比與美國保持密切關(guān)系對和平、繁榮和安全更重要的英國選民數(shù)量幾乎是持相反觀點的英國選民的兩倍。
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The report, based on extensive polling and discussion groups with people of all Brexit persuasions, finds that attitudes towards the EU are becoming more favourable across a range of policy areas, and that the entire Brexit debate is now far less toxic and more pragmatic.
基于廣泛的民意調(diào)查和與所有脫歐派人士的討論群體的該報告,發(fā)現(xiàn)在一系列政策領(lǐng)域,人們對歐盟的態(tài)度正變得更加支持,并且整個脫歐辯論現(xiàn)在遠沒有那么有害,而是更加務(wù)實了。
基于廣泛的民意調(diào)查和與所有脫歐派人士的討論群體的該報告,發(fā)現(xiàn)在一系列政策領(lǐng)域,人們對歐盟的態(tài)度正變得更加支持,并且整個脫歐辯論現(xiàn)在遠沒有那么有害,而是更加務(wù)實了。
This, its authors say, will give a potential Labour government “space and permission” to work towards closer lixs, particularly on issues of trade, security and defence, where a clear majority of the public is now in favour. The report by the independent thinktank British Future found that 52% of the public would now like the UK to have a closer relationship with the EU, with only 12% saying it should have a more distant one, and 27% in favour of maintaining the status quo.
報告的作者說,這將給潛在的工黨政府提供“空間和許可”,使其致力于建立更緊密的聯(lián)系,特別是在貿(mào)易、安全和國防問題上,這是大多數(shù)公眾現(xiàn)在支持的。獨立智庫“英國未來”的這份報告發(fā)現(xiàn),52%的公眾現(xiàn)在希望英國與歐盟保持更密切的關(guān)系,只有12%的人認為應(yīng)該疏遠歐盟,27%的人贊成維持現(xiàn)狀。
報告的作者說,這將給潛在的工黨政府提供“空間和許可”,使其致力于建立更緊密的聯(lián)系,特別是在貿(mào)易、安全和國防問題上,這是大多數(shù)公眾現(xiàn)在支持的。獨立智庫“英國未來”的這份報告發(fā)現(xiàn),52%的公眾現(xiàn)在希望英國與歐盟保持更密切的關(guān)系,只有12%的人認為應(yīng)該疏遠歐盟,27%的人贊成維持現(xiàn)狀。
Asked which relationship they regarded as most important for peace, prosperity and stability, almost half of respondents (48%) ranked the EU first, above the US (27%) and the Commonwealth (25%).
當被問及他們認為哪種關(guān)系對和平、繁榮和穩(wěn)定最重要時,近一半的受訪者(48%)將歐盟排在第一位,高于美國(27%)和英聯(lián)邦(25%)。
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當被問及他們認為哪種關(guān)系對和平、繁榮和穩(wěn)定最重要時,近一半的受訪者(48%)將歐盟排在第一位,高于美國(27%)和英聯(lián)邦(25%)。
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As evidence grows of the economic damage done to the UK by Brexit, the poll found 61% of people now favour closer cooperation over both trade and science and research with the EU. Some 68% back closer cooperation over crime and terrorism, 57% on customs arrangements and 57% on international health.
隨著越來越多的證據(jù)表明英國脫歐對經(jīng)濟造成了損害,民意調(diào)查發(fā)現(xiàn),61%的人現(xiàn)在支持與歐盟在貿(mào)易和科學研究方面加強合作。68%的人支持在打擊犯罪和恐怖主義方面加強合作,57%的人支持海關(guān)安排,57%的人支持國際衛(wèi)生。
隨著越來越多的證據(jù)表明英國脫歐對經(jīng)濟造成了損害,民意調(diào)查發(fā)現(xiàn),61%的人現(xiàn)在支持與歐盟在貿(mào)易和科學研究方面加強合作。68%的人支持在打擊犯罪和恐怖主義方面加強合作,57%的人支持海關(guān)安排,57%的人支持國際衛(wèi)生。
The report notes that UK attitudes have “shifted significantly against” leaving. From discussion groups it identified “a sense of public exhaustion with the issue of Brexit” with most people “keen to put the divisions of previous years behind them”.
報告指出,英國人對脫歐的態(tài)度已經(jīng)“明顯轉(zhuǎn)變”。從討論群體中,它發(fā)現(xiàn)了“公眾對英國脫歐問題的疲憊感”,大多數(shù)人“渴望把前幾年的分歧拋諸腦后”。
報告指出,英國人對脫歐的態(tài)度已經(jīng)“明顯轉(zhuǎn)變”。從討論群體中,它發(fā)現(xiàn)了“公眾對英國脫歐問題的疲憊感”,大多數(shù)人“渴望把前幾年的分歧拋諸腦后”。
While there was little evidence to suggest that people in this country felt European, or regarded themselves as sharing European values, they were nonetheless open to working more with the EU out of pragmatic interest.
雖然幾乎沒有證據(jù)表明這個國家的人覺得自己是歐洲(大陸)人,或者認為自己分享歐洲的價值觀,但出于務(wù)實的利益,他們?nèi)匀辉敢馀c歐盟進行更多的合作。
雖然幾乎沒有證據(jù)表明這個國家的人覺得自己是歐洲(大陸)人,或者認為自己分享歐洲的價值觀,但出于務(wù)實的利益,他們?nèi)匀辉敢馀c歐盟進行更多的合作。
The report said: “There is majority support for a less heated debate on the UK-EU relationship across both 2016 Leave voters (56%) and Remain voters (73%), as well as from both Conservative supporters (61%) and Labour supporters (68%) alike. Importantly, support for a less heated debate was consistent: around six in ten, across all age groups that were eligible to vote at the time of the referendum.
該報告稱:“2016年脫歐選民(56%)和留歐選民(73%)以及保守黨支持者(61%)和工黨支持者(68%)中,大多數(shù)人都支持對英歐關(guān)系進行不那么激烈的辯論。重要的是,支持不那么激烈的辯論的人是一致的:在全民公決時所有有資格投票的年齡組中的大約六成的人。
該報告稱:“2016年脫歐選民(56%)和留歐選民(73%)以及保守黨支持者(61%)和工黨支持者(68%)中,大多數(shù)人都支持對英歐關(guān)系進行不那么激烈的辯論。重要的是,支持不那么激烈的辯論的人是一致的:在全民公決時所有有資格投票的年齡組中的大約六成的人。
“This suggests the potential for an upxed and less divisive ‘future relationship’ than previously. Meanwhile younger people aged 18-24, who largely would have been too young to participate in the referendum, showed plurality agreement (45% agree, while 12% disagreed).”
“這表明,與以往相比,雙方有可能建立一種更新的、分歧更少的‘未來關(guān)系’。與此同時,年齡在18歲至24歲之間的年輕人(他們大多還太小,無法參加公投)表示了多數(shù)同意(45%同意,12%反對)?!?/b>
“這表明,與以往相比,雙方有可能建立一種更新的、分歧更少的‘未來關(guān)系’。與此同時,年齡在18歲至24歲之間的年輕人(他們大多還太小,無法參加公投)表示了多數(shù)同意(45%同意,12%反對)?!?/b>
Sunder Katwala, director of British Future, said there had already been signs of a willingness among the public to see the UK government working more closely with the EU, with the positively received introduction of the Windsor frxwork on arrangements for post-Brexit trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland earlier this year, and the more recent agreement on the UK rejoining the EU science programme Horizon as an associate member from 1 January next year.
“英國未來”的主管森德·卡特瓦拉稱,已經(jīng)有跡象表明,公眾愿意看到英國政府與歐盟更密切地合作,今年早些時候,英國和北愛爾蘭之間關(guān)于脫歐后貿(mào)易安排的溫莎框架得到了積極的歡迎,最近,英國同意從明年1月1日起重新加入歐盟科學計劃“地平線”,成為協(xié)理成員。
“英國未來”的主管森德·卡特瓦拉稱,已經(jīng)有跡象表明,公眾愿意看到英國政府與歐盟更密切地合作,今年早些時候,英國和北愛爾蘭之間關(guān)于脫歐后貿(mào)易安排的溫莎框架得到了積極的歡迎,最近,英國同意從明年1月1日起重新加入歐盟科學計劃“地平線”,成為協(xié)理成員。
But Katwala said such was the shifting mood that a new government “could try to go further”.
但卡特瓦拉表示,這種情緒正在轉(zhuǎn)變,新政府“可以嘗試走得更遠”。
但卡特瓦拉表示,這種情緒正在轉(zhuǎn)變,新政府“可以嘗試走得更遠”。
“Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves have talked about resetting the relationship with the EU. The public will give them space and permission for increasing pragmatic cooperation – though it remains unclear how much appetite there is for this in Brussels,” he said.
他說:“凱爾·斯塔默和雷切爾·里夫斯談到了重新設(shè)定與歐盟的關(guān)系。公眾將給予他們空間和許可,以加強務(wù)實合作——盡管目前尚不清楚布魯塞爾對此有多大興趣?!?/b>
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他說:“凱爾·斯塔默和雷切爾·里夫斯談到了重新設(shè)定與歐盟的關(guān)系。公眾將給予他們空間和許可,以加強務(wù)實合作——盡管目前尚不清楚布魯塞爾對此有多大興趣?!?/b>
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“The challenge for those who want a future government to be bolder still – and reconsider more totemic issues like the single market, free movement or a project to rejoin the EU itself – is that this would mean opening up more contested political arguments and reopening the Brexit debate.”
“對于那些希望未來政府更加大膽、重新考慮單一市場、自由流動或重新加入歐盟等更具象征意義的問題的人來說,挑戰(zhàn)在于,這將意味著開啟更有爭議的政治爭論,重新開啟英國脫歐辯論?!?/b>
“對于那些希望未來政府更加大膽、重新考慮單一市場、自由流動或重新加入歐盟等更具象征意義的問題的人來說,挑戰(zhàn)在于,這將意味著開啟更有爭議的政治爭論,重新開啟英國脫歐辯論?!?/b>
To date, Starmer has been reluctant to talk about closer lixs with the EU, for fear of losing support in red wall seats in the north and Midlands and being accused by the Tories of having a secret plan to rejoin. He has, however, spoken about the need to make Brexit work better for the UK, particularly economically.
到目前為止,斯塔默一直不愿意談?wù)撆c歐盟建立更緊密的聯(lián)系,因為他擔心失去北部和中部地區(qū)的紅墻席位的支持,并被保守黨指責有一個重新加入歐盟的秘密計劃。然而,他談到了讓脫歐更好地為英國服務(wù)的必要性,尤其是在經(jīng)濟上。
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到目前為止,斯塔默一直不愿意談?wù)撆c歐盟建立更緊密的聯(lián)系,因為他擔心失去北部和中部地區(qū)的紅墻席位的支持,并被保守黨指責有一個重新加入歐盟的秘密計劃。然而,他談到了讓脫歐更好地為英國服務(wù)的必要性,尤其是在經(jīng)濟上。
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The survey also asked people for their opinion about the decision to leave the European unx: 49% of respondents said it was wrong to leave, against 36% who said it had been right to leave. 15% did not know.
該調(diào)查還詢問了人們對脫歐決定的看法:49%的受訪者表示脫歐是錯誤的,36%的受訪者表示脫歐是正確的。15%的人不知道。
該調(diào)查還詢問了人們對脫歐決定的看法:49%的受訪者表示脫歐是錯誤的,36%的受訪者表示脫歐是正確的。15%的人不知道。
The research included a representative survey of more than 2,000 people by Foculdata as well as a series of discussion groups with people in London, Peterborough and Stockport.
這項研究包括對2000多人進行的有代表性的調(diào)查,以及與倫敦、彼得伯勒和斯托克波特的人們進行的一系列討論。
這項研究包括對2000多人進行的有代表性的調(diào)查,以及與倫敦、彼得伯勒和斯托克波特的人們進行的一系列討論。
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What we never got after the vote was a proper discussion about what Brexit should mean. I bet a lot of leave voters thought it would be mostly on paper, with business as usual in many areas. Instead we got the most extreme Brexit imaginable.
在公投之后,我們從未對英國脫歐意味著什么進行過適當?shù)挠懻?。我敢打賭,很多支持脫歐的選民當時認為,脫歐主要就是紙上談資,許多領(lǐng)域一切照舊。結(jié)果相反,我們得到了可以想象到的最極端的脫歐。
This should have been discussed and defined way before the vote....
這應(yīng)該在公投之前討論和確定好……
Indeed, it was an abuse of the official referendum guidelines - referrendums are not supposed to be held unless the options are clearly defined and there is a reasonable expectation that the average voter know what's what about the options.
事實上,這是對官方公投指導方針的濫用——除非選項有明確的定義,并且有合理的預(yù)期,普通選民知道這些選項是什么,否則就不應(yīng)該舉行公投。
It's reasons like this why I was arguing at the time that the referendum in itself was democratically invalid- and I stand by that.
Brexit did however become valid once the Tories won an election promising to deliver Brexit. Doesn't change the fact though that it's a shitty idea.
正是出于這樣的原因,我當時認為公投本身在民主上是無效的——我依然堅持這一點。
然而,一旦保守黨通過承諾脫歐贏得了選舉,那么脫歐就變得有效了。但這改變不了這是個爛主意的事實。
Brexit did however become valid once the Tories won an election promising to deliver Brexit.
I get where you are coming from, but I can't consider it valid when the party was intentionally lying and misinforming the voters.
Democracy is only democracy if it's informed, as I see it.
It's like if I sold you a house, but then it turned out I didn't own it. It wasn't a valid sale just because you entered into it of your own volition.
“然而,一旦保守黨通過承諾脫歐贏得了選舉,那么脫歐就變得有效了”
我明白你的意思,但我不認為政黨故意撒謊和誤導選民是有效的。
在我看來,民主只有在了解情況的情況下才是民主。
這就像我賣給你一套房子,但后來發(fā)現(xiàn)它不是我的。只因為你是自愿購買的并不能使它成為一筆有效的買賣。
Did the average voter know anything about how the EU Parliament works at all?
I left Great Britain well before Brexit, but even then, I know myself that I didn’t know much about who my MEP was, what their responsibilities were, who their EU party was, what their policies were, or even who the three presidents were. Even less about what all of that actually meant for regular jackoffs, such as myself.
Even going to Europe was basically the same as any other foreign country, because I still needed my passport.
In hindsight, there needed to be a lot more done to inform people as to the inner workings of what went on the the EU houses of commons and lords (without looking it up, I’m not actually sure how the EU parliament is structured).
Maybe a reality tv programme following one of the relatively anonymous MEPs for a year or two, as they do EU stuff each day might have helped.
To be fair though, when we went to school in the 70s and 80s, there wasn’t a single thing taught about how democracy and the government works in the UK. And even less taught about the new EU. So it’s not really surprising that people have no idea about how foreign governments work.
普通選民知道歐盟議會是如何運作的嗎?
我早在英國脫歐之前就離開了英國,但即使在那時,我自己也清楚,我不太了解我的歐洲議會議員是誰,他們的職責是什么,他們的歐盟黨派,他們的政策是什么,甚至不知道三位主席是誰。更不用說這對我這樣的普通人來說意味著什么了。
即使去歐洲,基本上也和去其他國家一樣,因為我仍然需要護照。
事后看來,需要做更多的工作來告知人們歐盟下議院和上議院的內(nèi)部運作情況(如果沒有搜索查閱,我實際上不知道歐盟議會是如何構(gòu)建的)。
也許一個對這些不為人知的歐洲議會議員進行一兩年的跟蹤報道的電視真人秀節(jié)目會有所幫助,因為這些人每天都在做歐盟的事情。
平心而論,當我們在70年代和80年代上學時,沒有學過任何關(guān)于英國民主和政府如何運作的內(nèi)容。對后來的歐盟的了解就更少了。所以人們不知道外國政府是如何運作的也就不足為奇了。
The problem was the politicians showed their true colours by jumping ship rather than dealing with it, then we got a buffoon to deal with it who botched the entire thing, all while the EU was playing hard to work with because despite the article being there, they were trying to make us an example.
We should have really just tried to get trade deals elsewhere rather than spend all our time trying to get a brexit in name, it was like trying to get mercy from the enemy who now wants you dead.
At the very least we should have got other trade deals then come back to Europe
問題是政客們通過跳船而不是處理問題來顯示他們的真面目,然后我們得到了一個小丑來處理這件事,他把整個事情搞砸了,而歐盟一直在努力與之合作,因為盡管有這篇報道,他們還是想讓我們成為一個榜樣。
我們真的應(yīng)該試著在其他地方達成貿(mào)易協(xié)議,而不是把我們所有的時間都花在名義上的脫歐上,這就像試圖得到敵人的寬恕,而這個敵人卻想現(xiàn)在就置你于死地。
至少我們應(yīng)該達成其他貿(mào)易協(xié)議,然后再回到歐洲
IMHO, this is basically meaningless without actual policies proposed by a political party with a chance to form a government.
Wanting a better trade deal or closer cooperation on science is different from being in favour of the trade off in benefits and obligations that an actual agreement would entail. The actual deal could be a lot less popular than the idea of a deal.
Being in favour of specific agreements that can be more or less described (e.g. single market membership) means nothing if no political party is willing to consider or negotiate it. If both major parties ignore the issue, then that blocks any progress on that front.
The reality is that no changes to the current agreement, if the EU is actually willing to negotiate that, will fundamentally mitigate the damage done by Brexit. Without fundamental changes to the UK's position as expressed by its politicians, the scope for improvements and changes will be very limited. Note that there is no guaranteed solution to any problem, let alone a tangled one such as this. The fact that the UK in general doesn't like its current position regarding the EU means very little. It is perfectly possible that no possible post-Brexit position (a trade deal, single market membership, even EU membership) will be politically stable. It's also possible that the UK's political system simply does not have the capacity or legitimacy to negotiate and uphold far reaching international treaties such as these any more.
Personally, I would be very much surprised if the UK rejoins either the single market or the EU proper without first going through political and electoral reform. First-past-the-post, the resultant political duopoly and the electoral calculus it creates are the major things blocking it from meaningfully engaging with the EU (and many internal issues besides). Of course, political and electoral reform is also not on the table at the present time, so this is probably also not going to happen in the foreseeable future. The UK's political system is, to put it mildly, resistant to reform.
The most probable outcome is IMHO that UK's political parties will refuse to engage on this. It's just so much easier to not try to untangle this particular knot and hope it all goes away. If nothing changes regarding the major parties' position (and there seems little scope for that), then no one will try any substantial changes or fixes for the next one or two parliamentary terms.
恕我直言,如果沒有一個有機會組建政府的政黨提出實際的政策,這基本上就是沒有意義的。
想要一個更好的貿(mào)易協(xié)議或更緊密的科學合作,與贊成在利益和義務(wù)上進行權(quán)衡(這是一個實際的協(xié)議所需要的)是不同的。落在紙上的實際協(xié)議可能遠不如想法中的協(xié)議那么受歡迎。
如果沒有政黨愿意考慮或談判,支持或多或少可以描述的具體協(xié)議(比如單一市場成員資格)就沒有任何意義。如果兩大黨都忽視這個問題,那么就會阻礙這方面的任何進展。
現(xiàn)實情況是,如果歐盟真的愿意就此進行談判,對現(xiàn)有協(xié)議的任何修改都不會從根本上減輕英國脫歐造成的損害。如果不像英國政界人士所表達的那樣,從根本上改變英國的立場,那么改善和改變的空間將非常有限。請注意,任何問題都沒有保證的解決方案,更不用說像這樣糾纏不清的問題了。英國總體上不喜歡其目前對歐盟的立場,這一事實意義不大。完全有可能的是,英國脫歐后,任何可能的立場(貿(mào)易協(xié)議、單一市場成員國,甚至歐盟成員國)都不會在政治上保持穩(wěn)定。還有一種可能是,英國的政治體系根本不具備談判和維護此類影響深遠的國際條約的能力或合法性。
在我個人看來,如果英國在不首先進行政治和選舉改革的情況下重新加入單一市場或歐盟,我會感到非常驚訝。簡單多數(shù)制,由此產(chǎn)生的政治雙寡頭壟斷和由此產(chǎn)生的選舉計算是阻礙它與歐盟進行有意義接觸的主要因素(此外還有許多內(nèi)部問題)。當然,政治和選舉改革目前也不在討論之列,因此在可預(yù)見的未來,這可能也不會發(fā)生。委婉地說,英國的政治體制抵制改革。
在我看來,最有可能的結(jié)果是,英國各政黨將拒絕參與此事。不去試圖解開這個特殊的死結(jié),祈禱它會自行消解要容易得多。如果主要政黨的立場沒有改變(似乎沒有什么余地),那么在接下來的一兩個議會任期內(nèi),沒有人會嘗試任何實質(zhì)性的改變或修正的。
There is zero chance of the UK rejoining the EU unless a rejoin party is created, wins a landslide, then negotiates us back in, or the Liberals go for gold on it. Labour/conservatives will not get us back in.
英國重新加入歐盟的可能性為零,除非成立一個“重新加入黨”,贏得壓倒性勝利,然后通過談判讓我們重新加入歐盟,或者自由黨在這方面全力以赴。工黨/保守黨不會讓我們回歸的。
I more or less agree.
There could have been a window when the consequences of Brexit became apparent, but it seems closed now. The opposition will try to play it safe in an effort to attract as many of the erstwhile Brexit voters as they can and no substantial change in the UK's policy regarding the EU is the price of that.
The alternative route would be ending the political duopoly through election reform, but that doesn't seem likely to happen either. The UK's political system seems very resistant to reform (which is ironic given the absence of any safeguards) and Brexit has probably destroyed any opportunity for another constitutional change for the foreseeable future.
A third party victory still seems unlikely though. By far the most likely outcome is that the UK gets stuck in its current position for a few decades, unable to muster the political will to rejoin the single market, but also unable to leave the EU's economic and regulatory orbit.
我或多或少贊同。
當英國脫歐的后果變得明顯時,可能會有一個窗口,但現(xiàn)在似乎關(guān)閉了。反對派將盡可能謹慎行事,以吸引盡可能多的以往支持英國脫歐的選民,而英國對歐盟的政策不會發(fā)生實質(zhì)性變化就是代價。
另一種途徑是通過選舉改革來結(jié)束政治上的雙頭壟斷,但這似乎也不太可能發(fā)生。英國的政治體制似乎非??咕芨母铮ㄨb于缺乏任何保障措施,這是具有諷刺意味的),在可預(yù)見的未來,英國脫歐可能已經(jīng)摧毀了再次進行憲法改革的任何機會。
然而,第三政黨似乎仍不太可能獲勝。到目前為止,最可能的結(jié)果是,英國在未來幾十年里滯于目前的境地,既無法凝聚重新加入單一市場的政治意愿,也無法脫離歐盟的經(jīng)濟和監(jiān)管軌道。
Kind of obvious really? Having trade deals with the rest of the world is important obviously but the EU market is just across the Channel and when it comes to things like policing, defence agreements and cooperation etc Europe is undeniably an important partner.
真的很明顯吧?與世界其他地區(qū)達成貿(mào)易協(xié)議顯然很重要,但歐盟市場就在海峽對岸,當涉及到警務(wù)、防務(wù)協(xié)議和合作等問題時,歐洲無疑是一個重要的合作伙伴。
The problem is a lot of people basically used Brexit as a protest vote. I dont think they ever expected to actually win.
問題是很多人基本上把脫歐作為一種“抗議投票”。我不認為他們真的指望會贏(結(jié)果玩脫了)。
My dad voted for Brexit as a protest vote and didn't expect it to win, he just wanted to spook "the elites". On the day of the vote he blustered for a bit about how the EU was shite anyway and he was glad the establishment had been given a bloody nose. Now he completely accepts that leaving has been catastrophic.
我爸爸投票支持英國脫歐就是當成一種“抗議投票”,他沒想到英國脫歐真會贏,他只是想嚇嚇“精英們”。在投票當天,他咆哮了幾句,說歐盟不管怎樣都是垃圾,他很高興建制派受到了打擊?,F(xiàn)在他完全承認離開歐盟是災(zāi)難性的。
Democratic choice it was. Choices have consequences ... few more years outside the EU will inform people about said consequences better than any leaflet.
這就是民主的選擇。選擇是有后果的……離開歐盟后再過幾年,將比任何傳單都能更好地告知人們上述后果。
Was it really a democratic choice?
Cambridge Analytica was investigated for interference in the vote. They collected the publics data points from their Facebook profiles and bombarded them with tailored political ads and memes.
Even if the investigation against them was dropped, I'm certain that their tactics tipped the vote towards Leave.
這真的是一個民主的選擇嗎?
劍橋分析公司因干預(yù)投票而受到調(diào)查。他們從他們的Facebook個人資料中收集公眾數(shù)據(jù)點,并用量身定制的政治廣告和表情包轟炸他們。
即使對他們的調(diào)查被撤銷,我敢肯定,他們當時的策略使得投票傾向于脫歐。
Anyone else sick of media lying about what we all think?
還有誰厭倦了媒體對我們的想法撒謊嗎?
I mean, there are several thousand surveys that all come up with the same answer.
It was always going to swing because of demographics, old people were the highest voting population and you can't vote when you're dead. Because of covid we lost a shittonne more of these voters than we usually would of.
Combine that with all the people who suffered because of the exit, and I gotta ask - TF could you expect otherwise?
我想說,有幾千個調(diào)查都得出了同樣的答案。
由于人口統(tǒng)計數(shù)據(jù)的原因,它總是會搖擺不定,老年人是投票率最高的人群,當你死了你就不能投票了。因為新冠疫情,我們失去了比平時更多的選民。
再加上所有因為脫歐而受苦的人,我不得不問——你還能指望什么?
Oh boy, a totally non-bias article from the guardian.
I’m sure if you got a general census, most people probably dislike the EU. Like while government botched it, the EU was trying very hard to make it worse for the UK on leaving, to avoid more people doing so. Effectively showing their true colours.
哦,這是一篇來自《衛(wèi)報》的完全沒有偏見的文章(反諷)。
我敢肯定,如果你做一個全面的人口普查,大多數(shù)人可能不喜歡歐盟。就像政府搞砸了這件事一樣,歐盟也在努力讓英國在脫歐時處境更糟,以避免更多國家脫歐。有效地展示了他們的真面目。
How has the EU made it harder than needed ?
歐盟是怎么個讓它變得比應(yīng)得的更困難的?
There's normally a case of negotiating between both parties, this was meant to still establish trading and such between both despite not being in the same unx anymore.
That was the plan, however the EU was making itself incredibly hard to work with despite no actual hurdles being there (since we just came out of it, not like there's difference in laws, etc), essentially as an attempt of screwing us over, and to make an example of us against other countries so they don't get any ideas about leaving (Poland, Netherlands, Greece, etc).
I probably should have explained it better but by harder I meant more difficult/more hostile than it needed to be.
通常情況下,雙方之間會進行談判,這意味著盡管雙方不再屬于同一個聯(lián)盟,但仍然可以建立貿(mào)易等等。
這就是計劃,然而歐盟讓自己難以置信地難以合作,盡管沒有實際的障礙(因為我們剛剛脫離歐盟,法律上似乎并沒有什么不同,等等),本質(zhì)上這就是為了玩我們,把我們在其他國家(波蘭、荷蘭、希臘等)面前樹個典型,這樣他們就不會有任何離開的想法了。
我可能應(yīng)該更好地解釋它,但我所說的“更難”是指比實際情況更困難/更具敵意。
It is not a huge shift. The swivel eyed loons in the Tory party voted in their representatives as leaders so we got the worst possible deal.
這不是一個巨大的轉(zhuǎn)變。保守黨的SB們把他們的代表選為領(lǐng)導人,所以我們得到了最糟糕的脫歐協(xié)議。
I'd love for the UK to rejoin the EU but the reality is, we'd never get the same cushy deal we had before.
我希望英國重新加入歐盟,但現(xiàn)實是,我們永遠不會像以前那樣輕松地達成協(xié)議。
No they don't, they really don't! Just saying it over and over again is rejoin desperately trying to stay relevant!
不,他們沒有,他們真的沒有!只是在一遍又一遍地拼命說要重新加入,為了保持自己的重要性!
EU be like: No thanks, we had enough of your bitching about everything.
歐盟會說:不了,謝謝,我們已經(jīng)受夠了你們對一切的抱怨。
Brexit was an IQ test.
脫歐就是一場智商測試。