QA：蘇美爾文明和中國(guó)夏朝哪個(gè)更古老？AS：這是不恰當(dāng)?shù)谋容^，應(yīng)該說(shuō)中華文明和蘇美爾文明哪個(gè)更古老
Which is older: the Sumer civilization or the Xia Dynasty of China?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
AS：這是兩個(gè)不恰當(dāng)?shù)谋容^。夏朝：是一個(gè)有核心君主的統(tǒng)一國(guó)家。蘇美爾文明：是誕生于美索不達(dá)米亞的一系列民族和城市文明的統(tǒng)稱，他的時(shí)間線很長(zhǎng)......
正文翻譯
Profile photo for Aya Shawn
Aya Shawn
master in Computer Science, National University of Singapore
These are two inappropriate comparisons.
xia Dynasty: It was a unified country with a core monarch.
Sumerian Civilization: It is a collective name for a series of national and urban civilizations born in the Mesopotamia. The timeline is very long.
這是兩個(gè)不恰當(dāng)?shù)谋容^。
夏朝：是一個(gè)有核心君主的統(tǒng)一國(guó)家。
蘇美爾文明：是誕生于美索不達(dá)米亞的一系列民族和城市文明的統(tǒng)稱，他的時(shí)間線很長(zhǎng)。
The two cannot be compared.
Correct comparison:
Which is older, the Chinese civilization or the Sumerian civilization?
Or:
Which is older, the Akkadian Empire or the xia Dynasty;
兩者不能相提并論。
正確比較：
中華文明和蘇美爾文明哪個(gè)更古老？
或者：
阿卡德帝國(guó)和夏朝哪個(gè)更古老？
Correct comparison:
Which is older, the Chinese civilization or the Sumerian civilization?
Or:
Which is older, the Akkadian Empire or the xia Dynasty;
兩者不能相提并論。
正確比較：
中華文明和蘇美爾文明哪個(gè)更古老？
或者：
阿卡德帝國(guó)和夏朝哪個(gè)更古老？
Here is a simple comparison:
1. Which is older, the Chinese civilization or the Sumerian civilization?
The earliest urban ruins discovered in the Sumerian civilization area are the ruins of Ur. About 7000-4500 years ago.
The earliest urban ruins of Chinese civilization were discovered in Jiangxi Province, today's China. It is called the Chengtoushan Ancient City Ruins, which dates back to about 6500-4800 years ago.
Taking the establishment of cities as a symbol, the Sumerian civilization was a little earlier. Considering the errors in archaeological science's judgment of ancient times, it can basically be regarded as a civilization that developed in the same era.
這是一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單的比較：
1.中華文明和蘇美爾文明哪個(gè)更古老？
蘇美爾文明地區(qū)發(fā)現(xiàn)的最早的城市遺址是烏爾遺址。距今約7000-4500年。
中華文明最早的城市遺址是在今天的中國(guó)江西省發(fā)現(xiàn)的。城頭山古城遺址，距今約6500-4800年。
如果文明以城市的建立為標(biāo)志，蘇美爾文明要早一些。考慮到考古學(xué)對(duì)古代時(shí)間的判斷錯(cuò)誤，兩者基本上可以認(rèn)為是同一時(shí)代發(fā)展起來(lái)的文明。
1. Which is older, the Chinese civilization or the Sumerian civilization?
The earliest urban ruins discovered in the Sumerian civilization area are the ruins of Ur. About 7000-4500 years ago.
The earliest urban ruins of Chinese civilization were discovered in Jiangxi Province, today's China. It is called the Chengtoushan Ancient City Ruins, which dates back to about 6500-4800 years ago.
Taking the establishment of cities as a symbol, the Sumerian civilization was a little earlier. Considering the errors in archaeological science's judgment of ancient times, it can basically be regarded as a civilization that developed in the same era.
這是一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單的比較：
1.中華文明和蘇美爾文明哪個(gè)更古老？
蘇美爾文明地區(qū)發(fā)現(xiàn)的最早的城市遺址是烏爾遺址。距今約7000-4500年。
中華文明最早的城市遺址是在今天的中國(guó)江西省發(fā)現(xiàn)的。城頭山古城遺址，距今約6500-4800年。
如果文明以城市的建立為標(biāo)志，蘇美爾文明要早一些。考慮到考古學(xué)對(duì)古代時(shí)間的判斷錯(cuò)誤，兩者基本上可以認(rèn)為是同一時(shí)代發(fā)展起來(lái)的文明。
2. Which is older, the xia Dynasty or the Akkadian Empire?
The xia Dynasty was the first dynasty in Chinese civilization with clear historical records, royal identity records and archaeological discoveries. According to ancient Chinese historical records, the xia Dynasty existed from 2070 BC to 1600 BC.
The Akkadian Empire was the first unified state in Mesopotamia, ending the region's previous state of tribes and city-states. According to discovered historical records, the Akkadian Empire was founded from 2334 BC to 2192 BC.
Therefore, judging from the time of its establishment, the Akkadian Empire is older than the xia Dynasty.
2.夏朝和阿卡德帝國(guó)哪個(gè)更古老？
夏朝是中華文明中第一個(gè)有明確歷史記載、王室身份記錄和考古發(fā)現(xiàn)的王朝。據(jù)中國(guó)古代史料記載，夏朝存在于公元前2070年至公元前1600年。
阿卡德帝國(guó)是美索不達(dá)米亞第一個(gè)統(tǒng)一國(guó)家，結(jié)束了該地區(qū)以前的部落和城邦國(guó)家。根據(jù)已發(fā)現(xiàn)的歷史記錄，阿卡德帝國(guó)成立于公元前2334年至公元前2192年。
因此，從建立時(shí)間來(lái)看，阿卡德帝國(guó)比夏朝還要古老。
The xia Dynasty was the first dynasty in Chinese civilization with clear historical records, royal identity records and archaeological discoveries. According to ancient Chinese historical records, the xia Dynasty existed from 2070 BC to 1600 BC.
The Akkadian Empire was the first unified state in Mesopotamia, ending the region's previous state of tribes and city-states. According to discovered historical records, the Akkadian Empire was founded from 2334 BC to 2192 BC.
Therefore, judging from the time of its establishment, the Akkadian Empire is older than the xia Dynasty.
2.夏朝和阿卡德帝國(guó)哪個(gè)更古老？
夏朝是中華文明中第一個(gè)有明確歷史記載、王室身份記錄和考古發(fā)現(xiàn)的王朝。據(jù)中國(guó)古代史料記載，夏朝存在于公元前2070年至公元前1600年。
阿卡德帝國(guó)是美索不達(dá)米亞第一個(gè)統(tǒng)一國(guó)家，結(jié)束了該地區(qū)以前的部落和城邦國(guó)家。根據(jù)已發(fā)現(xiàn)的歷史記錄，阿卡德帝國(guó)成立于公元前2334年至公元前2192年。
因此，從建立時(shí)間來(lái)看，阿卡德帝國(guó)比夏朝還要古老。
評(píng)論翻譯
很贊 ( 23 )
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Srash
· Oct 31
The Akkadian and Assyrian empires fascinate me. They could carve out an empire in a world where the only civilisations were just basically them, with the next major one is ancient Egypt which was far away for that age.
阿卡德帝國(guó)和亞述帝國(guó)讓我著迷。他們可以在一個(gè)世界上建立一個(gè)帝國(guó)，那里唯一的文明基本上就是他們，下一個(gè)主要文明是古埃及，對(duì)于那個(gè)時(shí)代來(lái)說(shuō)，它距離很遠(yuǎn)。
Gareth Wells
· Oct 31
Yes, that we currently know of. Human civilization may have been reset further back in time repeatedly.
是的，我們目前知道。人類文明可能已經(jīng)多次被重置。
Graham White
· Nov 1
Unfortunately there’s little to no credible evidence of this idea that there were greater human civilizations before the ones discussed in this answer and this comment.
不幸的是，幾乎沒(méi)有任何可信的證據(jù)證明這個(gè)想法，即在這個(gè)答案和這個(gè)評(píng)論中討論的文明之前存在著更偉大的人類文明。
Gareth Wells
· Nov 2
Well, as long as you keep such an open mind about it.
I note your qualification of “greater civilizations”. That's a cute touch.
There's tantalising emerging evidence of organised civilizations prior to those listed by the OP. Whether they were greater or not is subject to interpretation.
Others have listed them in these comments.
好吧，只要你對(duì)此保持開(kāi)放的態(tài)度。
我注意到你對(duì)“更偉大文明”的描述。這是一種可愛(ài)的感覺(jué)。
在答主列出的文明之前，有一些誘人的新證據(jù)表明有組織的文明存在。它們是否更大還有待解釋。
其他人已在這些評(píng)論中列出了它們。
Graham White
· Nov 2
But where’s the actual evidence for any of it? I included “greater” so you wouldn’t surmise, like all the other Hancock non-academic groupies, that Gobekli Tepe is evidence of some great ancient civilization, when there is no evidence it is.
但這些的實(shí)際證據(jù)在哪里呢？我添加了“更大”這個(gè)詞，這樣你就不會(huì)像所有其他漢考克的簇?fù)碚咭粯硬聹y(cè)哥貝克力石陣是某個(gè)偉大古代文明的證據(jù)，盡管根本沒(méi)有證據(jù)表明它確實(shí)如此。
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Gareth Wells
· Nov 3
Like I said, new sites could be unearthed showing much older civilizations. Latest news:
“The first radiocarbon dating of the site indicates that initial construction began sometime in the last glacial period, more than 16,000 years before the present and possibly as far back as 27,000 years ago.
To put that in perspective, G?bekli Tepe, which is a massive stone assembly in present-day Turkey, is currently considered to be the oldest known megalith in the world. It dates to 11,000 years ago.”
就像我說(shuō)的，新的遺址可能會(huì)被發(fā)現(xiàn)，顯示出更古老的文明。最新消息：
“對(duì)該地點(diǎn)的首次放射性碳14測(cè)年表明，最初的建設(shè)始于末次冰期的某個(gè)時(shí)間，比現(xiàn)在早16,000多年，可能早至27,000年前。
客觀地說(shuō)，哥貝克力石陣是位于當(dāng)今土耳其的一個(gè)巨大石塊組合，目前正在考慮成為世界上已知最古老的巨石。它的歷史可以追溯到11,000年前?！?/b>
Brian Wilson
· Nov 1
Yeah thats what everyone thought and still think that only “we” are the civilized people, the “others” that we traded with are just “babarians” :) how convenient right. Like now there is the “first world” and there is “thrid countries”
是的，這就是每個(gè)人的想法，并且仍然認(rèn)為只有“我們”才是文明人，與我們交易的“其他人”只是“野蠻人”:)這多么方便啊。就像現(xiàn)在有“第一世界國(guó)家”和“第三世界國(guó)家”
Gary Sucher
· Nov 2
I didn’t realize that we are Assyrians. Well, some of us are.
我沒(méi)有意識(shí)到我們是亞述人。嗯，我們中的一些人是。
Wei Shi
· Nov 1
That was the history of China until 3000 years ago.
這就是中國(guó)3000年前的歷史。
Paolo Carpi
· Nov 2
Can you elaborate?
你能詳細(xì)說(shuō)明一下嗎？
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Wei Shi
· Nov 2
Chinese carve out an empire in a world where the only civilisations were just basically them, with the next major one is ancient Hindu which was 3000 miles snowy mountain path.
中國(guó)人在世界上建立了第一個(gè)帝國(guó)，當(dāng)時(shí)唯一的文明基本上就是他們，下一個(gè)主要文明是古印度，那是在3000英里的雪山之外。
Gilles Ries
· Nov 1
Very wise and balanced answer.
Note however, for very old items, with a first city or organization (it remains fuzzy), at Gobekli Tepe that is a 10000 years old.
And as early organized empire, there is Egypt 5150 years ago (unification of north and south Egypt in 3150 BC).
非常明智和平衡的答案。
但請(qǐng)注意，對(duì)于非常古老的文明來(lái)說(shuō)，把第一個(gè)城市或組織作為標(biāo)準(zhǔn)（依然是模糊的），哥貝克力石陣已有10000年的歷史。
而作為早期有組織的帝國(guó)，有5150年前的埃及（公元前3150年南北埃及統(tǒng)一）。
Graham White
· Nov 2
There’s no evidence that Gobekli Tepe is an organized city or civilization
沒(méi)有證據(jù)表明哥貝克力石陣是一個(gè)有組織的城市或文明
Gilles Ries
· Nov 2
Hence my wording maybe not good: “city or organization”: if not a city, it is something organized. The first hypothesis proposed when discovering Gobekli Tempe was about a kind nomadic gathering, that occurred periodically. The construction of the site, the carving of the stones are not a single-day…
因此我的措辭可能不太好：“城市或組織”：如果不是城市，那就是有組織的。
在發(fā)現(xiàn)哥貝克力神廟時(shí)提出的第一個(gè)假設(shè)是關(guān)于一種定期發(fā)生的游牧聚會(huì)。場(chǎng)地的建設(shè)、石頭的雕刻都不是一朝一夕的工作，肯定需要一個(gè)重要的組織。
隨著越來(lái)越多的房屋痕跡被發(fā)現(xiàn)，最近的假設(shè)表明存在一座城市。
那么，事實(shí)上，對(duì)于最初的問(wèn)題，人們可能會(huì)爭(zhēng)論文明的定義是什么，以及從什么階段開(kāi)始，一個(gè)人類群體可以被稱為文明。
哥貝克力石陣的照片：在我看來(lái)，相當(dāng)漂亮的雕刻或雕塑。
Zalán Tóth
· Nov 3
Isn’t G?bekli Tepe 12000 years old?
哥貝克力石陣不是有12000年歷史了嗎？
Terri Ferrari
· Nov 7
There is also the Harappan civilisation in the Indus Valley from about 5,300 years ago.
印度河流域還有大約5300年前的哈拉帕文明。
Ada Bush
· Nov 1
One thing that is good news for history enthusiasts is that China has discovered a new archaeological site, which is even older than the "夏" era and has clear text that says "堯"
對(duì)于歷史愛(ài)好者來(lái)說(shuō)，有一件好消息是，中國(guó)發(fā)現(xiàn)了一個(gè)新的考古遺址，它的歷史甚至比“夏”還要古老。那個(gè)時(shí)代，發(fā)現(xiàn)了清晰的文字寫(xiě)著“堯”。
Tim Tran
· Nov 10
Is there a lix for this? I would love to read about it.
有這個(gè)鏈接嗎？我很想讀一下。
Tristan Sitko
· Nov 2
It is very intriguing that those two civilizations developed only centuries apart. Homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of thousands of years. What prompted urban development and civilization to happen at two very distant places during such a close timefrx?
非常有趣的是，這兩個(gè)文明的發(fā)展僅相隔幾個(gè)世紀(jì)。智人已經(jīng)存在了數(shù)十萬(wàn)年。是什么促使城市發(fā)展和文明在如此接近的時(shí)間范圍內(nèi)發(fā)生在兩個(gè)相距遙遠(yuǎn)的地方？
Dixit
· Nov 1
Since there's no contemporary evidence that the xia dynasty existed, I'd say this answer is rather redundant.
由于沒(méi)有當(dāng)代證據(jù)表明夏朝存在，我認(rèn)為這個(gè)答案相當(dāng)多余。
Peter Hsieh
· Nov 1
Until today, the British history books still teaching that King Arthur and his Round table still exist but it was pure Myth. Even Historians cannot give a actual date because it varies between 600Ad to 1200AD. At least xia Dynasty (from2070BC) have more solid documentary proof than King Arthur.
As for xia Dynasty, the latest Archaeologist have discovered Chinese Writings around 4500BC in China from the broken potteries unearthed recently. So, xia Dynasty existence will never be in doubt. At the same time, the discovery of SHIM in north China, a massive Castles, Palaces & Solid Stone Fortress over 15 meter in height (just like a massive pyramid) from 2300BC recently and the archaeology works will take at least many many decades to complete.
直到今天，英國(guó)歷史書(shū)仍然教導(dǎo)亞瑟王和他的圓桌會(huì)議仍然存在，但這純粹是神話。即使歷史學(xué)家也無(wú)法給出一個(gè)實(shí)際的日期，因?yàn)樗诠?00年到公元 1200年之間變化。至少夏朝（公元前2070年）比亞瑟王有更可靠的文獻(xiàn)證據(jù)。
至于夏朝，最新的考古學(xué)家從最近出土的破碎陶器中發(fā)現(xiàn)了公元前4500年左右的中國(guó)文字。所以，夏朝的存在是不容置疑的。與此同時(shí)，在中國(guó)北方發(fā)現(xiàn)了一座巨大的城堡、宮殿和宮殿。這座堅(jiān)固的石頭堡??壘高度超過(guò)15米（就像一座巨大的金字塔），建于公元前2300年，考古工作至少需要幾十年才能完成。
Paolo Carpi
· Nov 2
Do the Chinese fool fanatics ever stop to blindly fight back against westerners? Everyone knows King Arthur is a elaboration of more ancient legend and no one think Arthur figure existed in the form it is represented in the lore.
Which western source you’ve read about King Arthur? The Disney’s movie?
中國(guó)的傻瓜狂熱分子會(huì)停止盲目反擊西方人嗎？每個(gè)人都知道亞瑟王是更古老的傳說(shuō)的詳細(xì)闡述，但沒(méi)有人認(rèn)為亞瑟王的形象以傳說(shuō)中所代表的形式存在。
您讀過(guò)哪些有關(guān)亞瑟王的西方資料？迪士尼的電影？
Heaven Suny
· Nov 8
No If the West had not colonized, who would know whether David was a cat or a dog.
不如果西方?jīng)]有殖民，誰(shuí)知道大衛(wèi)是貓還是狗。
Gary Sucher
· Nov 2
Your range is wrong on mythical Arthur. It would be between around 450 - 600 AD. After the Romans abandoned Britain during the Saxon conquests. Either way WAY before William the Conquerer.
你對(duì)神話中的亞瑟的射程是錯(cuò)誤的。大約在公元 450 - 600 年之間。羅馬人在撒克遜人的征服過(guò)程中放棄了英國(guó)。不管怎樣，在征服者威廉之前。
Heaven Suny
· Nov 8
It’s so funny to use mythology as history! If you look at it this way, South Korea is the earliest civilized country in the world.
把神話當(dāng)作歷史，太搞笑了！如果這樣看的話，韓國(guó)是世界上最早文明的國(guó)家。
Sourish Pradhan
·
The xia dynasty is a bogus make-believe joke Chinese mythical state. The erlitiou culture merely dates to the early Shang period. It has no connection to xia despite Chinese efforts to forcibly lix it. Sumer was an actual civilization that is archeologically proven. It was the cradle of all later human civilizations in the old world. It's an insult to humanity to bring the xia dynasty into this comparison.
夏朝是一個(gè)虛構(gòu)的、虛構(gòu)的中國(guó)神話國(guó)家。二里頭文化僅可追溯到商代早期。盡管C努力強(qiáng)行將其聯(lián)系起來(lái)，但它與夏沒(méi)有聯(lián)系。蘇美爾是一個(gè)經(jīng)過(guò)考古證實(shí)的真實(shí)文明。它是舊世界后來(lái)所有人類文明的搖籃。把夏朝納入這樣的比較，是對(duì)人性的侮辱。
Dong-Yoon Lee
· Nov 29
It is not that two civilizations had no relation. Chinese learned Mesopotamian culture and began to remove all traces.
這并不是說(shuō)兩個(gè)文明沒(méi)有關(guān)系。中國(guó)人學(xué)習(xí)了美索不達(dá)米亞文化，并開(kāi)始消除所有痕跡。
Sourish Pradhan
· Nov 29
Just like they learnt culture from other neighbouring civilizations and removed all the traces.
就像他們從其他鄰近文明那里學(xué)習(xí)文化并消除所有痕跡一樣。
Goodi Shang
· Dec 1
Archaeologists have found the xia Dynasty capital ruins and have been excavating and developing them for over 60 years. The museum is dozens of times larger than the Taj Mahal.
考古學(xué)家發(fā)現(xiàn)了夏朝都城遺址，并對(duì)其進(jìn)行了60多年的發(fā)掘和開(kāi)發(fā)。該博物館比泰姬陵大幾十倍。
Sourish Pradhan
· Dec 2
Erlitou culture has no connection to xia dynasty. 1750 - 1530 BCE falls closer to early shang period (1600 BCE). The “palace” that was found there dates to 1500 BCE. Well within early shang and nowhere near xia period.
Taj Mahal is a disgrace to India. Every non-Muslim Indian hates it. It holds no significance for ancient India. Ancient Buddhist, Hindu and Jain temples are more valuable for the country’s heritage.
二里頭文化與夏朝沒(méi)有任何聯(lián)系。公元前 1750-1530 年更接近商代早期（公元前 1600年）。在那里發(fā)現(xiàn)的“宮殿”可以追溯到公元前 1500 年。遠(yuǎn)在商代早期，遠(yuǎn)不及夏代。
泰姬陵是印度的恥辱。每個(gè)非穆斯林印度人都討厭它。它對(duì)古印度沒(méi)有任何意義。古代佛教、印度教和耆那教寺廟對(duì)于該國(guó)的遺產(chǎn)來(lái)說(shuō)更有價(jià)值。
Goodi Shang
· Dec 2
The facts are there, you can't argue.
事實(shí)擺在那里，你無(wú)法反駁。
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Baw-Lin Liu
· Nov 29
xia was prehistoric and it could be a portion of Sumer. People probably had no intention to remove their heritage, but they could not trace back due to prehistoric situations.
夏是史前的，可能是蘇美爾的一部分。人們可能無(wú)意消除他們的遺產(chǎn)，但由于史前情況而無(wú)法追溯。
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Peter Kauffner
·
The xia dynasty is a legend, so this question is not posed correctly.
Perhaps what you are really asking for is a comparison between the Sumerian and the Chinese civilizations. Uruk, the city of Gilgamesh, was founded around 5000 BC. Erlitou in China was founded around 1750 BC.
Writing developed in Sumer about two thousand years before it developed in China. Sumerian writing originated around 3200 BC. Writing developed in Egypt and in the Indus valley at around the same time.
As for China, Shang oracle bone scxt goes back to 1300 BC.
夏朝是一個(gè)傳說(shuō)，所以這個(gè)問(wèn)題提得不正確。
也許你真正想要的是蘇美爾文明和中華文明之間的比較。烏魯克，吉爾伽美什城，建于公元前 5000 年左右。中國(guó)的二里頭始建于公元前1750年左右。
文字在蘇美爾的發(fā)展比在中國(guó)的發(fā)展早了大約兩千多年。蘇美爾文字起源于公元前 3200 年左右。埃及和印度河谷大約同時(shí)發(fā)展了文字。
至于中國(guó)，商代甲骨文的歷史可以追溯到公元前1300年。
CHANG YU
· Nov 29
Please stop your double standards
The OP has made it very clear that the earliest city in China is the ancient city of Chengtoushan, not the Erlitou site. It existed at about the same time as Uruk. This was ancient times and a mature country had not yet been formed.
The Erlitou site is much later and is considered the capital of the xia Dynasty, a dynasty in China with detailed historical records. Mature dynasties and empires have emerged in this era, and they even recorded the names of each king and what they encountered.
Just like you cannot regard the Ptolemaic Dynasty as the beginning of ancient Egypt, the xia Dynasty is not the beginning of Chinese civilization. The xia Dynasty was the same as the Ptolemaic Dynasty, but it was a later era with detailed documentary records.
請(qǐng)停止你的雙重標(biāo)準(zhǔn)
答主已經(jīng)介紹的很清楚，中國(guó)最早的城市是城頭山古城，并不是二里頭遺址，它存在于和烏魯克城差不多的時(shí)代。這是遠(yuǎn)古時(shí)代，還沒(méi)有形成成熟的國(guó)家。
二里頭遺址要晚得多，它被認(rèn)為是夏朝的首都，是中國(guó)有詳細(xì)歷史記錄的王朝。這個(gè)時(shí)代已經(jīng)出現(xiàn)了成熟的王朝和帝國(guó)，他們連每一位國(guó)王的名字和他們遇到的事情都記錄了下來(lái)。
就像你不能把托勒密王朝作為古埃及的開(kāi)始一樣，夏朝也并不是中華文明的開(kāi)始。夏朝和托勒密王朝一樣，只是一個(gè)更晚的，擁有了詳細(xì)文獻(xiàn)記錄的時(shí)代。