QA問答：為什么中國夏商周時期的古史中沒有提到三星堆文化？AS：有沒有可能三星堆就是夏朝
Why isn’t there any mention of the Sanxingdui culture in ancient Chinese histories which cover the Xia/Shang/Zhou period?
譯文簡介
三星堆
是一個現(xiàn)代地名，意思是“三個土丘”
正文翻譯
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Aya Shawn
Living in Singapore, professional investorApr 11
Sanxingdui
is a modern place name, the name means "three mounds"
The place where the ruins were found was a wasteland with three mounds, so the locals called it "Sanxingdui"
name is obviously a modern one, so there cannot be "Sanxingdui" in the historical records of xia, Shang and Zhou. This should be easy to understand
Sanxingdui Ruins is an ancient site. In this site, there are traces of human activities for a long time. In fact, the lowest layer of ruins belongs to the Neolithic Age, dating back 5,000 years ago, while the largest layer of ruins dates back to about 3,500 years ago. Belongs to the same period as the Shang Dynasty.
三星堆
是一個現(xiàn)代地名，意思是“三個土丘”
遺址發(fā)現(xiàn)的地方是一片荒地，有三個土丘，當(dāng)?shù)厝朔Q之為“三星堆”
這個名字顯然是現(xiàn)代的，所以夏商周的史籍中不可能有“三星堆”。這個應(yīng)該很容易理解。
三星堆遺址是一個古老的遺址，在這個遺址里，很早就有人類活動的痕跡，其實(shí)最底層的遺址屬于新石器時代，距今5000多年，而最頂層的遺址則可追溯到約3500年前，與商朝屬于同一時期。
Aya Shawn
Living in Singapore, professional investorApr 11
Sanxingdui
is a modern place name, the name means "three mounds"
The place where the ruins were found was a wasteland with three mounds, so the locals called it "Sanxingdui"
name is obviously a modern one, so there cannot be "Sanxingdui" in the historical records of xia, Shang and Zhou. This should be easy to understand
Sanxingdui Ruins is an ancient site. In this site, there are traces of human activities for a long time. In fact, the lowest layer of ruins belongs to the Neolithic Age, dating back 5,000 years ago, while the largest layer of ruins dates back to about 3,500 years ago. Belongs to the same period as the Shang Dynasty.
三星堆
是一個現(xiàn)代地名，意思是“三個土丘”
遺址發(fā)現(xiàn)的地方是一片荒地，有三個土丘，當(dāng)?shù)厝朔Q之為“三星堆”
這個名字顯然是現(xiàn)代的，所以夏商周的史籍中不可能有“三星堆”。這個應(yīng)該很容易理解。
三星堆遺址是一個古老的遺址，在這個遺址里，很早就有人類活動的痕跡，其實(shí)最底層的遺址屬于新石器時代，距今5000多年，而最頂層的遺址則可追溯到約3500年前，與商朝屬于同一時期。
Left: Bronze kettle from the Shang Dynasty
Right: Bronze kettle from Sanxingdui
左：商代青銅壺
右：三星堆青銅壺
It is clear that this is an ancient tribe, having existed for more than a thousand years in total. At the end of his civilization, he had close ties with the Shang dynasty in the east.
Among the cultural relics unearthed at Sanxingdui, in addition to the unique bronze masks and bronze sacred trees, there are many cultural relics very similar to those of the Shang Dynasty, and there are also some similar cultural relics to other southern civilizations at that time. Therefore, Sanxingdui was not an independent civilization. It had close ties with other civilizations on mainland China at that time.
Since no writing was found at the Sanxingdui site, archaeologists are unable to determine his real name, so the "Sanxingdui site" is currently named after the place where it was found.
However, judging from its geographical location, time and cultural relic characteristics, it is very likely that the Sanxingdui civilization was recorded in the oracle bone inscxtions of the Shang Dynasty: Shu Kingdom
In the oracle bones library of the Shang Dynasty, Shu is recorded as one of its many servant states. When the Shang Dynasty collapsed, Shu joined the camp against him, and his army joined the Zhou Dynasty in overthrowing the Shang Dynasty.
Of course, there are many unreasonable phenomena in the distribution of cultural relics in Sanxingdui. Historians have other theories.
顯然，這是一個古老的部族，存在時間總計(jì)超過一千年，在其文明末期，與東方的商朝有著密切的聯(lián)系。
三星堆出土的文物中，除了獨(dú)特的青銅面具、青銅神樹等，還有不少與商代極為相似的文物，也有與當(dāng)時其他南方文明相似的文物，因此三星堆并不是一個獨(dú)立的文明，它與當(dāng)時中國大陸的其他文明有著密切的聯(lián)系。
由于三星堆遺址未發(fā)現(xiàn)任何文字，考古學(xué)家無法確定他的真實(shí)名字，所以目前“三星堆遺址”以發(fā)現(xiàn)地命名。
但從其地理位置、時代、文物特征等來看，三星堆文明很有可能是商代甲骨文中記載的：蜀國
在商朝的甲骨文庫中，蜀國被記載為商朝眾多的附庸國之一。商朝滅亡后，蜀國加入了反商陣營，蜀國的軍隊(duì)也加入周朝，推翻了商朝。
當(dāng)然，三星堆的文物分布也存在很多不合理的現(xiàn)象，歷史學(xué)家也有其他的說法。
Among the cultural relics unearthed at Sanxingdui, in addition to the unique bronze masks and bronze sacred trees, there are many cultural relics very similar to those of the Shang Dynasty, and there are also some similar cultural relics to other southern civilizations at that time. Therefore, Sanxingdui was not an independent civilization. It had close ties with other civilizations on mainland China at that time.
Since no writing was found at the Sanxingdui site, archaeologists are unable to determine his real name, so the "Sanxingdui site" is currently named after the place where it was found.
However, judging from its geographical location, time and cultural relic characteristics, it is very likely that the Sanxingdui civilization was recorded in the oracle bone inscxtions of the Shang Dynasty: Shu Kingdom
In the oracle bones library of the Shang Dynasty, Shu is recorded as one of its many servant states. When the Shang Dynasty collapsed, Shu joined the camp against him, and his army joined the Zhou Dynasty in overthrowing the Shang Dynasty.
Of course, there are many unreasonable phenomena in the distribution of cultural relics in Sanxingdui. Historians have other theories.
顯然，這是一個古老的部族，存在時間總計(jì)超過一千年，在其文明末期，與東方的商朝有著密切的聯(lián)系。
三星堆出土的文物中，除了獨(dú)特的青銅面具、青銅神樹等，還有不少與商代極為相似的文物，也有與當(dāng)時其他南方文明相似的文物，因此三星堆并不是一個獨(dú)立的文明，它與當(dāng)時中國大陸的其他文明有著密切的聯(lián)系。
由于三星堆遺址未發(fā)現(xiàn)任何文字，考古學(xué)家無法確定他的真實(shí)名字，所以目前“三星堆遺址”以發(fā)現(xiàn)地命名。
但從其地理位置、時代、文物特征等來看，三星堆文明很有可能是商代甲骨文中記載的：蜀國
在商朝的甲骨文庫中，蜀國被記載為商朝眾多的附庸國之一。商朝滅亡后，蜀國加入了反商陣營，蜀國的軍隊(duì)也加入周朝，推翻了商朝。
當(dāng)然，三星堆的文物分布也存在很多不合理的現(xiàn)象，歷史學(xué)家也有其他的說法。
Left: Jade cong from Sanxingdui Civilization
Right: Jade cong from the Liangzhu Civilization in the south
左：三星堆文明的玉琮
右：南方良渚文明的玉琮
For example, some historians have discovered that although the remains of human life at the Sanxingdui site are very ancient, they are very crude. No huge palaces, mausoleums, or city ruins were discovered. All traces and evidence of human activities prove that this place seems to be just a small tribe.
But in this simple ruins, several huge sacrificial pits were discovered, filled with massive amounts of bronze, jade and ivory. These things are obviously not something that can be made in this simple tribal ruins.
According to the general principles of human civilization, when you find a large number of bronzes, irons, or pottery in an ancient site, you will have a high probability of discovering the places, materials, and waste where these things were made. But Sanxingdui found none of this.
All high-end human creations seemed to have fallen from the sky and been buried there.
Therefore, an additional guess also exists. A Chinese history professor told me about another guess:
比如，有歷史學(xué)家發(fā)現(xiàn)，三星堆遺址的人類生活遺跡雖然很古老，但卻十分簡陋，幾乎沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)任何巨大的宮殿、陵墓、城址，一切人類活動的痕跡和證據(jù)都證明，這里似乎只是一個小部落。
但就在這片簡陋的遺址中，卻發(fā)現(xiàn)了數(shù)個巨大的祭祀坑，坑內(nèi)裝滿了大量的青銅、玉石和象牙，這些東西顯然不是在這片簡陋的部落遺址中能夠制作出來的。
按照人類文明的一般規(guī)律，當(dāng)你在一個古遺址發(fā)現(xiàn)大量的青銅器、鐵器或者陶器時，有很大的概率會發(fā)現(xiàn)這些東西的制作地點(diǎn)、制作材料和遺留物，但三星堆什么都沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)。
這些人類的高端創(chuàng)造物仿佛都從天上掉下來并埋葬在那里。
因此，還有許多額外的猜測。一位中國歷史教授告訴我另一個猜測：
But in this simple ruins, several huge sacrificial pits were discovered, filled with massive amounts of bronze, jade and ivory. These things are obviously not something that can be made in this simple tribal ruins.
According to the general principles of human civilization, when you find a large number of bronzes, irons, or pottery in an ancient site, you will have a high probability of discovering the places, materials, and waste where these things were made. But Sanxingdui found none of this.
All high-end human creations seemed to have fallen from the sky and been buried there.
Therefore, an additional guess also exists. A Chinese history professor told me about another guess:
比如，有歷史學(xué)家發(fā)現(xiàn)，三星堆遺址的人類生活遺跡雖然很古老，但卻十分簡陋，幾乎沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)任何巨大的宮殿、陵墓、城址，一切人類活動的痕跡和證據(jù)都證明，這里似乎只是一個小部落。
但就在這片簡陋的遺址中，卻發(fā)現(xiàn)了數(shù)個巨大的祭祀坑，坑內(nèi)裝滿了大量的青銅、玉石和象牙，這些東西顯然不是在這片簡陋的部落遺址中能夠制作出來的。
按照人類文明的一般規(guī)律，當(dāng)你在一個古遺址發(fā)現(xiàn)大量的青銅器、鐵器或者陶器時，有很大的概率會發(fā)現(xiàn)這些東西的制作地點(diǎn)、制作材料和遺留物，但三星堆什么都沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)。
這些人類的高端創(chuàng)造物仿佛都從天上掉下來并埋葬在那里。
因此，還有許多額外的猜測。一位中國歷史教授告訴我另一個猜測：
Left: Jade sacrificial obxts from the Sanxingdui Civilization
Right: Sacrificial obxts from the Erlitou Civilization
Erlitou is considered to be a city ruins from the xia Dynasty
左：三星堆文明的玉制祭祀器
右：二里頭文明的祭祀用品
二里頭被認(rèn)為是夏代城市遺址
Sanxingdui is just a backward tribe, and a large number of high-level cultural relics found in Sanxingdui actually come from another more advanced civilization: xia
Yes, xia was the first dynasty in Chinese history. According to Chinese historical records, xia was founded in 2040 BC. After xia was defeated by Shang, its royal family was not wiped out. The Shang Dynasty allowed the xia royal family to continue to exist as common people, and they migrated to other places. But where they went, history has no record.
There is such a hypothesis that after xia's defeat, its royal family migrated with a large number of royal sacrificial supplies, and finally came to the tribe where Sanxingdui was located, and settled down again here. In order to prevent their massive wealth from being coveted by their enemies, they buried all these things underground, hoping that they would have the opportunity to regain their country in the future.
However, they never opened this treasure again until 3,500 years later.
三星堆只是一個落后的部族，三星堆發(fā)現(xiàn)的大量高級文物其實(shí)來自另一個更先進(jìn)的文明：夏
是的，夏是中國歷史上第一個王朝。根據(jù)中國史書記載，夏建國于公元前2040年。夏被商滅后，其王室并未被消滅。商朝允許夏王室繼續(xù)以平民身份存在，他們則遷徙到其他地方。但他們?nèi)チ四睦?，歷史沒有記載。
有這樣一種假說，夏朝滅亡后，其王室?guī)е罅炕始壹漓胗闷愤w徙，最終來到三星堆所在的部落，并在此地重新定居。為了防止自己的巨額財(cái)富被敵人覬覦，他們把這些東西全部埋在地下，希望將來有機(jī)會收復(fù)國家。
然而，直到3500年后他們才再次打開這批寶藏。
Yes, xia was the first dynasty in Chinese history. According to Chinese historical records, xia was founded in 2040 BC. After xia was defeated by Shang, its royal family was not wiped out. The Shang Dynasty allowed the xia royal family to continue to exist as common people, and they migrated to other places. But where they went, history has no record.
There is such a hypothesis that after xia's defeat, its royal family migrated with a large number of royal sacrificial supplies, and finally came to the tribe where Sanxingdui was located, and settled down again here. In order to prevent their massive wealth from being coveted by their enemies, they buried all these things underground, hoping that they would have the opportunity to regain their country in the future.
However, they never opened this treasure again until 3,500 years later.
三星堆只是一個落后的部族，三星堆發(fā)現(xiàn)的大量高級文物其實(shí)來自另一個更先進(jìn)的文明：夏
是的，夏是中國歷史上第一個王朝。根據(jù)中國史書記載，夏建國于公元前2040年。夏被商滅后，其王室并未被消滅。商朝允許夏王室繼續(xù)以平民身份存在，他們則遷徙到其他地方。但他們?nèi)チ四睦?，歷史沒有記載。
有這樣一種假說，夏朝滅亡后，其王室?guī)е罅炕始壹漓胗闷愤w徙，最終來到三星堆所在的部落，并在此地重新定居。為了防止自己的巨額財(cái)富被敵人覬覦，他們把這些東西全部埋在地下，希望將來有機(jī)會收復(fù)國家。
然而，直到3500年后他們才再次打開這批寶藏。
Left: Pottery from the Sanxingdui Civilization
Right: Pottery from the Erlitou Civilization
左圖：三星堆文明的陶器
右圖：二里頭文明的陶器
This explanation involves a lot of speculation and storytelling
But it can explain many unreasonable phenomena in Sanxingdui
1. Why are there so many high-level cultural relics?
As a defeated royal family, it is normal to transfer many of the dynasty's wealth and sacrificial supplies. This may also explain why among all the artifacts, there are very few weapons. Because they don't have much of an army.
2. Why is the Sanxingdui ruins so small?
This place was not originally the capital of the country, but a backward tribe. The nobles moved here to live, and naturally they could not recreate the glory of the imperial capital.
3. Why is there a big gap between the civilization level of the ruins and the civilization level of the cultural relics in the sacrificial pits?
Because all high-level cultural relics are foreign
4. Why are there many cultural relics similar to those of the Shang Dynasty and southern countries?
Because the xia Dynasty was once the center of civilization, it was normal to receive gifts from surrounding countries.
5. Why are their bronze masks and sacred trees so different from those of the Shang Dynasty?
The xia Dynasty itself is another civilization, older than the Shang Dynasty, and it is normal to have a unique style.
6. Why is the Jinsha ruins, dozens of kilometers south of Sanxingdui, considered to be the destination for the second migration of Sanxingdui people? It is later than Sanxingdui, but there are not so many high-level cultural relics.
The nobles buried all the dynasty's treasures and became a group of desolate common people. By the time their descendants migrated to the Jinsha ruins, they had lost the ability to make these things again.
這種解釋涉及很多猜測和故事
但可以解釋三星堆很多不合理的現(xiàn)象
1、為什么有這么多高級別文物？
作為戰(zhàn)敗的皇室，轉(zhuǎn)移很多王朝的財(cái)富和祭祀物資也是很正常的事。這或許也能解釋為什么在所有的文物中，武器很少。因?yàn)樗麄兊能婈?duì)不多。
2、三星堆遺址為什么這么?。?br /> 這里原本并不是國家的首都，而是一個落后的部族，貴族們遷到這里居住，自然無法重現(xiàn)帝都的輝煌。
3、遺址的文明程度和祭祀坑內(nèi)文物的文明程度為何差距這么大？
因?yàn)樗懈呒壩奈锒际峭鈦淼?br /> 4、為什么有很多與商朝及南方國家相似的文物？
因?yàn)橄某?jīng)是文明的中心，接受周邊國家的饋贈是很正常的事。
5、他們的青銅面具、神樹為何與商朝有如此大的不同？
夏朝本身是另外一個文明，比商朝還要古老，有獨(dú)特的風(fēng)格也很正常。
6、為什么說三星堆以南幾十公里的金沙遺址是三星堆人第二次遷徙的目的地？它比三星堆晚，但高等級的文物卻沒有那么多。
貴族們把王朝的寶物全部埋藏起來，成為了一群凄涼的平民，等到他們的后代遷徙到金沙遺址時，已經(jīng)失去了重新制造這些東西的能力。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
But it can explain many unreasonable phenomena in Sanxingdui
1. Why are there so many high-level cultural relics?
As a defeated royal family, it is normal to transfer many of the dynasty's wealth and sacrificial supplies. This may also explain why among all the artifacts, there are very few weapons. Because they don't have much of an army.
2. Why is the Sanxingdui ruins so small?
This place was not originally the capital of the country, but a backward tribe. The nobles moved here to live, and naturally they could not recreate the glory of the imperial capital.
3. Why is there a big gap between the civilization level of the ruins and the civilization level of the cultural relics in the sacrificial pits?
Because all high-level cultural relics are foreign
4. Why are there many cultural relics similar to those of the Shang Dynasty and southern countries?
Because the xia Dynasty was once the center of civilization, it was normal to receive gifts from surrounding countries.
5. Why are their bronze masks and sacred trees so different from those of the Shang Dynasty?
The xia Dynasty itself is another civilization, older than the Shang Dynasty, and it is normal to have a unique style.
6. Why is the Jinsha ruins, dozens of kilometers south of Sanxingdui, considered to be the destination for the second migration of Sanxingdui people? It is later than Sanxingdui, but there are not so many high-level cultural relics.
The nobles buried all the dynasty's treasures and became a group of desolate common people. By the time their descendants migrated to the Jinsha ruins, they had lost the ability to make these things again.
這種解釋涉及很多猜測和故事
但可以解釋三星堆很多不合理的現(xiàn)象
1、為什么有這么多高級別文物？
作為戰(zhàn)敗的皇室，轉(zhuǎn)移很多王朝的財(cái)富和祭祀物資也是很正常的事。這或許也能解釋為什么在所有的文物中，武器很少。因?yàn)樗麄兊能婈?duì)不多。
2、三星堆遺址為什么這么?。?br /> 這里原本并不是國家的首都，而是一個落后的部族，貴族們遷到這里居住，自然無法重現(xiàn)帝都的輝煌。
3、遺址的文明程度和祭祀坑內(nèi)文物的文明程度為何差距這么大？
因?yàn)樗懈呒壩奈锒际峭鈦淼?br /> 4、為什么有很多與商朝及南方國家相似的文物？
因?yàn)橄某?jīng)是文明的中心，接受周邊國家的饋贈是很正常的事。
5、他們的青銅面具、神樹為何與商朝有如此大的不同？
夏朝本身是另外一個文明，比商朝還要古老，有獨(dú)特的風(fēng)格也很正常。
6、為什么說三星堆以南幾十公里的金沙遺址是三星堆人第二次遷徙的目的地？它比三星堆晚，但高等級的文物卻沒有那么多。
貴族們把王朝的寶物全部埋藏起來，成為了一群凄涼的平民，等到他們的后代遷徙到金沙遺址時，已經(jīng)失去了重新制造這些東西的能力。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
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Sanxingdui is the current name of the place, but people no longer know what it was called back then. Therefore, people at that time may have mentioned it, but people now don’t know it. China's history is real history, and it will encounter real situations and difficulties. It is different from the fabricated history of the West. Only fabricated history can fully explain everything, and because it is fabricated, it will be perfect.
三星堆是現(xiàn)在的名字，但人們已經(jīng)不知道它當(dāng)年叫什么了。 所以，當(dāng)時的人可能提到過，但現(xiàn)在的人卻不知道了。 中國的歷史是真實(shí)的歷史，也會遇到真實(shí)的情況和困難。 這與西方捏造的歷史不同。 只有捏造的歷史才能充分解釋一切，并且因?yàn)槭悄笤斓?，所以才會完美?/b>
Sanxingdui cannot be a sacrificial pit. There are no traces of residential life around the same period, and there are no workshops for producing these items. The items in the pit are arranged in a very hierarchical manner, as if they were intentional, and all the items are not sacrificial utensils. Moreover, the sacrifices of the Shang Dynasty must have included animal or human sacrifices, but these sacrificial activities have not been found. Many of the items in the ruins pit have been used for thousands of years. Although the burial time measured by carbon 14 is 3,500 years, the items may have been produced 4,500 years ago. If it is for sacrifice, why are such old items used for sacrifice? So it's more like a dynasty change or a war, and some valuables were buried here in order to escape.
三星堆不可能是祭祀坑。 沒有同期居住生活的痕跡，也沒有生產(chǎn)這些物品的作坊。 坑內(nèi)的物品排列得很有層次，仿佛是有意為之，而且所有物品都不是祭祀器皿。 而且，商代的祭祀必定包括動物或人的祭祀，但這些祭祀活動卻沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)。 廢墟坑中的許多物品已經(jīng)使用了上千年。 雖然碳14測得的埋藏時間為3500年，但這些物品可能是在4500年前生產(chǎn)的。 如果是祭祀的話，為什么要用這么古老的物品來祭祀呢？ 所以更像是朝代更迭或者戰(zhàn)爭，一些貴重物品為了逃亡而被埋在這里。
Sanxingdui, I have always guessed, is a place where imperial tombs or worshiping "heaven" were concentrated in the ancient Shu Kingdom. It is just a formality, not what we usually know. This can logically explain the reason why there are no written things, because according to the customs of sacrifice or burial, this kind of idea needs to be given to "Heaven" for approval.
三星堆，我一直猜測是古蜀國類似集中皇陵或者集中祭拜"天"的地方，只是形式，不是我們平時所了解的樣子。這樣可以從邏輯上說通，為什么沒有出現(xiàn)帶有文字類東西原因，因?yàn)榘凑占漓牖虬苍岬牧?xí)俗，是需要把這種貼，燒給"天"審批的。
What the hell? Is Sanxingdui a descendant of the xia Dynasty?
I have to say that your idea is very bold. As a Chinese, this is the first time I have heard such a hypothesis.
什么鬼？三星堆就是夏朝的后裔？
不得不說你的想法非常大膽，作為中國人，我第一次聽到這樣的假設(shè)
It is possible some foreigners tried to fool the Chinese by shipping some madeup stuffs through rivers and dump them there.
有可能一些外國人試圖通過河流運(yùn)送一些偽造品并將其傾倒在那里來愚弄中國人。
I’m not sure if I’m completely right on this, but Sanxingdui archeological site contained relics from an ancient kingdom that was NOT called “Sanxingdui.” That is a modern (or relatively less ancient) name which meant “Three Star Mound.”
Archaeologists generally believed that the kingdom which the Sanxingdui relics came from was called Shu. It is also sometimes called Ancient Shu to differentiate it from the more famous Shu from The Three Kingdoms era.
The Ancient Shu kingdom, as its name would suggest, was where modern day Sichuan is today. Many ancient civilisations arose from regions with great rivers, and Ancient Shu was no exception. It was however a Yangtze River civilisation, unlike xia/Shang/Zhou, which was a Yellow River civilisation. Likewise, the state of Chu was from the Yangtze River region and they often prided themselves as “outsiders.”
(Distance of Sanxingdui from Anyang, which was once a capital of the Shang Dynasties. Also note, that the Zhou Dynasty was founed near xi’an, much closer.)
The Ancient Shu was however mentioned in ancient Chinese histories. They joined the final war against Shang, known as the Battle of Muye in 1046 BCE, and they were on the allied side of Zhou.
Hark to Lords of our allied states, ministers, commanders, generals, captains, and the people of Yong, Shu, Qiang, M, Wei, Lu, Peng, and Pu. Pickup your axes, align your shields, raise your spears, and heed my declaration.
-Declaration of the Battle of Muye
But it is questionable whether the Ancient Shu who were allied with Zhou came from the same kingdom that the Sanxingdui relics were from. Ancient Shu had existed for hundreds of years and it’s ruling tribe would not necessarily be from the same lineage.
我不確定我的說法是否完全正確，但三星堆考古遺址包含來自一個不被稱為“三星堆”的古代王國的遺跡。 這是一個現(xiàn)代（或相對不那么古老）的名字，意思是“三顆星的土堆”。
考古學(xué)家普遍認(rèn)為，三星堆遺址出土的國家叫蜀國。 有時也被稱為古蜀，以區(qū)別于三國時代更為著名的蜀國。
顧名思義，古蜀國就是今天的四川。 許多古代文明都起源于大江大河的地區(qū)，古蜀也不例外。 然而，它是長江文明，與夏/商/周不同，夏/商/周是黃河文明。 同樣，楚國來自長江流域，也常常自詡為“外人”。
（三星堆距安陽的距離很遠(yuǎn)，安陽曾經(jīng)是商朝的首都。另請注意，周朝是在西安附近建立的，更近。）
然而，中國古代歷史中卻提到了古蜀。 他們參加了公元前1046年對商的最后一場戰(zhàn)爭，即牧野之戰(zhàn)，并與周結(jié)盟。
王曰：“嗟！我友邦冢君、御事、司徒、司馬、司空，亞旅、師氏，千夫長、百夫長，及庸，蜀、羌、髳、微、盧、彭、濮人。稱爾戈，比爾干，立爾矛，予其誓。
-《尚書: 周書: 牧誓》
但與周結(jié)盟的古蜀是否與三星堆遺跡來自同一個國家，值得懷疑。 古蜀已經(jīng)存在了數(shù)百年，其統(tǒng)治部落不一定是同一血統(tǒng)。
We really don’t know. I suppose it was because Sichuan was so remote, and the Shang didn’t have any real reason to go there.
For whatever reason, they existed, declined, and were quite forgotten until the late 20th century when archeologists excavated the site. I was astonished by the reports in 文物 Wenwu, the archeological journal. I have written elsewhere on Quora about the day the exhibit at the National Palace Museum in Taipei opened. From the fervent discussion going on, you could tell that those in attendance had good knowledge of archeology. I was one of the few who had read the archeological reports, but even I was astonished when I saw the pieces in real life. There’s a huge difference between a drawing or photo, however good, and facing this gigantic, overpowering bronze. Nobody had seen anything like this before. It was, to repeat myself, astonishing.
我們真的不知道。 我想這是因?yàn)樗拇ㄌh(yuǎn)了，商朝沒有任何真正的理由去那里。
不管出于什么原因，它們曾經(jīng)存在過、衰落過，然后被完全遺忘，直到20世紀(jì)末考古學(xué)家挖掘了這個遺址。 考古雜志《文物文武》上的報(bào)道讓我感到驚訝。 我在Quora的其他地方寫過有關(guān)臺北故宮博物院展覽開幕當(dāng)天的文章。 從討論的熱烈程度就可以看出，在場的人對于考古學(xué)都有著很好的了解。 我是少數(shù)讀過考古報(bào)告的人之一，但當(dāng)我在現(xiàn)實(shí)生活中看到這些碎片時，連我都感到驚訝。 無論繪畫或照片多么精美，與面對這尊巨大、令人難以抗拒的青銅雕像之間存在著巨大的差異。 以前沒有人見過這樣的東西。 我再說一遍，這真是令人驚訝。
當(dāng)?shù)谝淮握褂[到來時，我已經(jīng)花了幾十年的時間研究了盡可能多的青銅器。 我講述這一點(diǎn)是為了讓大家了解三星堆對于我們這些熟悉商代青銅器的人來說是多么的古怪、多么的不可思議。 我們從未見過類似的東西。 這也許會讓你了解他們對中國古代文化的影響有多么小：沒有。
That does sound like something catastrophic happened to them like total annihilation/ destruction of the culture?
這聽起來確實(shí)像是災(zāi)難性的事情發(fā)生在他們身上，比如文化的徹底毀滅/破壞？
I don’t think there was any evidence of catastrophe, but they may find some. ~I haven’t kept up with the latest developments here, but I recall the Sanxingdui just sort of faded away.
Thanks for the prompt, I should see what the archeologists have come up with recently.
我認(rèn)為沒有任何災(zāi)難的證據(jù)，但他們可能會發(fā)現(xiàn)一些。 ~我沒有跟上這里的最新動態(tài)，但我記得三星堆就這樣消失了。
謝謝你的提示，我應(yīng)該看看考古學(xué)家最近有什么成果。
Chinese history books mention ancient Shu. China has a lot of records about ancient Shu. For example, the ancient Shu city looked like a snail. I don’t know if my translation is correct. You have to read the original text, but there is indeed something right in the history books. The descxtion of ancient Shu, and mentioned that the people of Qin destroyed the ancient Shu, and Qin finally unified China. Before unifying China, Qin had developed for hundreds of years.
中國歷史書上提到了古蜀。 中國有很多關(guān)于古蜀的記載。 例如，古蜀城看起來像一只蝸牛。 我不知道我的翻譯是否正確。 你得看原文，但史書上確實(shí)有說對的地方。 對古蜀的描述，并提到秦人滅了古蜀，秦人最終統(tǒng)一了中國。 在統(tǒng)一中國之前，秦國已經(jīng)發(fā)展了數(shù)百年。
Keen reader of Chinese historical booksDec 26
The Sanxingdui ruins are located in Sichuan Province near the source of the Yangtze River. Most of the excavated items can be dated to the Bronze Age towards the end of Shang Dynasty Era. The discovery of the Sanxingdui culture affirmed the theory that the Chinese culture not only originated from the Yellow River Delta, but also from the Yangtze River delta.
The historical books of China emerged during the Zhou Dynasty. The Sanxingdui sites was not located near the center of political power of the time and not a really significant region in the grand scheme of things. Hence, it’s not really surprising that it’s not mentioned in any historical text. In addition, if it’s mentioned in any historical text, it’s likely that :
it went by a different names
the texts which mentioned the location had all been burnt by Qin Shihuang.
三星堆遺址位于四川省長江源頭附近。 大多數(shù)出土物品的年代可追溯到商代末期的青銅時代。 三星堆文化的發(fā)現(xiàn)，肯定了中華文化不僅起源于黃河三角洲，而且起源于長江三角洲的理論。
中國的史書出現(xiàn)于周代。 三星堆遺址并不位于當(dāng)時的政治權(quán)力中心附近，在宏偉的國家中也不是一個真正重要的地區(qū)。 因此，任何歷史文獻(xiàn)中都沒有提及它也就不足為奇了。 此外，如果在任何歷史文本中提到它，很可能是：它有不同的名字
提到該地點(diǎn)的文字均已被秦始皇焚毀。
xia and Shang didn’t have historians to record details events,
At present, there are no written paragraphs found belongs to the xia Dynasty. In fact, there is still a lot of controversy about where the xia Dynasty was, but what is not controversial is that there were several powerful nation develpment level sites in China during that era, but it is still unclear which one is the xia Dynasty.
And there are many records were found belongs to the Shang Dynasty, but most of them are prayers. For the surrounding forces, they usually use words like "barbarians from XXXX direction" to describe them, so we cannot clearly know the relationship between the culture of Sanxingdui belongs and the Shang Dynasty.
As for the Zhou Dynasty, the Sanxingdui culture had already weakened and gradually degenerated into the Ba state and Shu state during the Zhou Dynasty, ultimately being annexed by the Qin State in final.
夏商沒有歷史學(xué)家來記錄詳細(xì)事件，
目前尚無發(fā)現(xiàn)屬于夏代的文字記載。 其實(shí)，關(guān)于夏朝在哪里，目前還有很多爭議，但沒有爭議的是，那個時代中國有幾個強(qiáng)國級別的遺址，但目前還不清楚哪一個是夏朝。
商代的記載也有很多，但大多是祭祀文。 對于周邊勢力，他們通常會用“XXXX方向的蠻族”之類的詞語來形容，因此我們無法清楚地知道三星堆所屬文化與商朝之間的關(guān)系。
至于周朝，三星堆文化已經(jīng)衰弱，并在周朝逐漸退化為巴國、蜀國，最終被秦國吞并。
The Sanxingdui area is located in the Sichuan Basin of China. This region had a very low presence before the Zhou Dynasty, and due to the extremely difficult passage of roads into and out of the Sichuan Basin, the Sichuan region was very closed before the Warring States period.
During the Zhou Dynasty and the Spring and Autumn Period, this region was mainly inhabited by two Zhou dynasty vassal states, the State of Ba and the State of Shu. However, there are not many historical records further forward, and they are more similar to legends rather than history. The internal affairs of the Sichuan Basin entered history in detail, after the annexation of Ba and Shu by the State of Qin in 316 BC.
Civilizations like Sanxingdui may have been eliminated during the civil war in Sichuan before the rise of Ba and Shu due to wars, famines, or natural disasters. There are many unsolved mysteries in the Sichuan Basin, such as the hanging coffins of the Bo people, which lack historical records. These may have all perished in wars, famines, or natural disasters before 316 AD.
Of course, I cannot deny that it is possible that the Qin people carried out a large-scale destruction of previous literature after occupying the Sichuan Basin, and Emperor Qin Shi Huang also destroyed books on a large scale after the establishment of the Qin Dynasty. However, due to the fact that books such as "Zuo Zhuan" and "Spring and Autumn Annals" written befor 316 BC, as well as many other books in other regions of China that survived the Great Burning of Qin Shi Huang, almost no mention of the Sichuan region was made, I tend to believe that the Sichuan region before this did not form a historical record system for other regions of the Zhou Dynasty.
三星堆地區(qū)位于中國四川盆地。 該地區(qū)在周代之前存在度很低，而且由于進(jìn)出四川盆地的道路極其困難，導(dǎo)致戰(zhàn)國之前四川地區(qū)非常封閉。
周朝和春秋時期，該地區(qū)主要居住著巴國和蜀國兩個周朝諸侯國。 不過，更進(jìn)一步的歷史記載并不多，更多的是類似于傳說而不是歷史。 公元前316年秦國吞并巴蜀之后，四川盆地的內(nèi)部事務(wù)才詳細(xì)進(jìn)入歷史。
像三星堆這樣的文明，可能在巴蜀崛起之前的四川內(nèi)戰(zhàn)期間，由于戰(zhàn)爭、饑荒或自然災(zāi)害而被消滅。 四川盆地還有很多未解之謎，比如僰人的懸棺，缺乏歷史記載。 這些人可能在公元316年之前都死于戰(zhàn)爭、饑荒或自然災(zāi)害。
當(dāng)然，我不能否認(rèn)，有可能秦人在占領(lǐng)四川盆地后對以前的文獻(xiàn)進(jìn)行了大規(guī)模的銷毀，秦始皇在秦朝建立后也大規(guī)模地銷毀了書籍。 然而，由于《左傳》、《春秋》等成書于公元前316年之前的書籍，以及中國其他地區(qū)在秦始皇大焚后幸存下來的許多其他書籍，幾乎沒有提及關(guān)于四川地區(qū)的記載，我傾向于認(rèn)為在此之前的四川地區(qū)并沒有形成周朝其他地區(qū)的歷史記載體系。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
The Sanxingdui culture might be too early for ancient Chinese historians. The Sanxingdui culture started around 1600 BC and ended around 1050 BC, alternatively it could be from 1700BC to 1150 BC.
對于中國古代歷史學(xué)家來說，三星堆文化可能還為時過早。 三星堆文化始于公元前1600年左右，結(jié)束于公元前1050年左右，也可能是公元前1700年至公元前1150年。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
這與商朝是同時代的，我們對商朝的歷史記錄是有限的，這就是甲骨文。 迄今為止，還沒有發(fā)現(xiàn)夏朝時期的文字。發(fā)現(xiàn)的最早的商代甲骨可以追溯到公元前1230年左右。所以目前三星堆的歷史與甲骨文使用時期只有不到1/3的重疊，以公元前1050年為三星堆的終結(jié)。 甲骨文并不是嚴(yán)格意義上的歷史記錄，甲骨的性質(zhì)或許不允許在上面刻下大量的文字。 然而，我們知道，司馬遷的商王名單與甲骨文的對應(yīng)相當(dāng)準(zhǔn)確，因此除了甲骨文之外，很可能還有另一種形式的記錄得以幸存或被準(zhǔn)確復(fù)制。
Sima Qian also found that he cannot compile precise events dating before the Gonghe Regency. This means that precise dating and yearly events in Chinese history from records known to ancient Chinese people could only be traced to 841 BC at the earliest.
可能有距離的因素。 三星堆毗鄰高原和山脈，可能會給交通帶來困難，尤其是在中國的早期。
司馬遷還發(fā)現(xiàn)，他無法準(zhǔn)確記錄共和元年之前的事件。 這意味著，中國古代人所知的歷史記錄中的精確年代和年份事件最早只能追溯到公元前841年。
So currently we could find out more, if archaeological excavations could uncover more records from the Shang and Western Zhou period which might give us more info on the surrounding polities and predating the Gonghe Regency.
這意味著，除了缺乏記錄歷史的甲骨文外，后來的中國歷史，最早記載于春秋時期，對三星堆文化的見證也較晚，沒有可靠的紀(jì)實(shí)記錄。 只能從公元前841年之前開始。
所以目前我們可以了解得不多，如果考古發(fā)掘能夠發(fā)現(xiàn)更多商周和西周時期的記錄，這可能會給我們更多關(guān)于周圍政體和共和元年之前的信息。
The Sanxingdui site is not in xia/Shang/Zhou's country, and it is very far away, thousands of kilometers away from the distance.
Therefore, xia Shang Zhou cannot know the Sanxingdui culture.
三星堆遺址不在夏商周國家，而且距離很遠(yuǎn)，有幾千公里的距離。
因此，夏商周不可能了解三星堆文化。
Nothing is impossible, the artifacts listed by the OP are so similar. It cannot be a coincidence that two unrelated civilizations could have made such similar items.
Sanxingdui must have a clear connection with the Shang Dynasty, xia Dynasty and even Liangzhu
沒有什么不可能，OP列出的文物是如此相似。兩個沒有聯(lián)系的文明不可能做出如此相似的物品，這不可能是巧合。
三星堆與商朝、夏朝甚至良渚一定有著明確的聯(lián)系
There may be. Sanxingdui lies in Sichuan, the place where two states in ancient histories, Ba and Shu, lay in. Shang dynasty did mention a “Ba” state in their oracle bone scxt.
可能有。 三星堆位于四川，是古代歷史上巴、蜀兩個國家的所在地。商代的甲骨文中確實(shí)提到了“巴”國。