如果東羅馬帝國存活到現(xiàn)代會怎樣？這可能會怎么實(shí)現(xiàn)？

Stephen Cunningham
In the late 330-s Constantine expanded Constantinople in to a major city with the help of the Goths and Alamani and the Franks from the Balkans.He built fortifications all over Byzantium and planed to invade Armenia but decide against it i 325-AD Constantine called for the council of Nicea but thee Eastern Bishops were against this idea they claimed jurisdiction over the Christian church all of the Bishops of Rome finally agreed on Birth of Christ

在公元330年代末，君士坦丁擴(kuò)展了君士坦丁堡，使其成為一座重要城市，并在哥特人、阿拉曼人和來自巴爾干半島的法蘭克人的幫助下完成了這項(xiàng)工作。他在整個(gè)拜占庭修建了防御工事，并計(jì)劃入侵亞美尼亞，但最終決定放棄。在公元325年，君士坦丁召集了尼西亞公會議，但東部主教們反對這一提議，他們聲稱對基督教教會擁有管轄權(quán)。最終，羅馬的所有主教都同意了耶穌基督的誕生。
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David Hamm
Forget it —it WOULDN’T have happened because it WOULDN’T have been possible.

忘了吧——這根本不會發(fā)生，因?yàn)檫@根本不可能。

During the ‘Middle Ages’ Constantinople, the former Emperor Constantine’s NEW capital at the point of the water passage from the Aegean Sea through the channel of the Bosphorus and into the Black Sea, was TOO CLOSE to the Middle East, then dominated by Musli... in the Ottoman Empire. It took them several tries, but by 1453, the Ottomans captured the city after a 53 day siege, following which Sultan Mehemet II made the city, renamed Istanbul, his new capital, marking the end of the thousand-year solo reign of the Byzantine empire (the former Eastern Roman Empire) following the 476 AD sacking of the ‘Western Empire’ at Rome.

在中世紀(jì)時(shí)期，君士坦丁堡——即皇帝君士坦丁建立的新都城，位于愛琴海通過博斯普魯斯海峽通往黑海的水道上——距離中東地區(qū)過于接近，當(dāng)時(shí)中東由奧斯曼帝國的穆斯林統(tǒng)治。經(jīng)過幾次嘗試后，奧斯曼帝國于1453年攻陷了這座城市，經(jīng)過53天的圍攻，蘇丹穆罕默德二世將這座城市更名為伊斯坦布爾，作為他的新的都城，這標(biāo)志著拜占庭帝國（即以前的東羅馬帝國）在公元476年西羅馬帝國在羅馬被洗劫后的千年統(tǒng)治的終結(jié)。

From Istanbul, the Muslim Ottomans poured into Eastern Europe, conquering multiple territories and re-settling them with people of Islamic ancestry, eventually getting all the way to the gates of Vienna, then capital of the Holy Roman Empire. Over the coming decades, Vienna would be assaulted multiple times—in 1485, in 1529, and finally in 1683 the Ottomans, then under Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa Pasha , with as many as 150,000 followers, laid siege to the walls of Vienna for nearly two months until other Christian forces, mostly cavalry, under the overall leadership of Polish (Christian) King Jan Sobieski arrived in the ‘nick of time’ to break the siege as the walls themselves were about to be breached. The Grand Vizier was compelled to fall back as the forces of the ‘Christian Coalition’ pursued him and ‘liberated’ many formerly Christian areas in Hungary and the Balkans, although some would be ‘reconquered’ by Musli... in later centuries.

從伊斯坦布爾開始，穆斯林奧斯曼帝國向東歐擴(kuò)張，征服了多個(gè)領(lǐng)土，并將其重新安置了伊斯蘭血統(tǒng)的人民，最終一直抵達(dá)了維也納的城門，當(dāng)時(shí)維也納是神圣羅馬帝國的首都。在接下來的幾十年里，維也納多次遭到攻擊——分別在1485年、1529年和1683年，奧斯曼帝國在大維齊爾卡拉穆斯塔法帕夏的指揮下，集結(jié)了多達(dá)150,000人的軍隊(duì)，對維也納城墻進(jìn)行了近兩個(gè)月的圍攻，直到其他基督教力量，主要是騎兵，在波蘭（基督教）國王揚(yáng)·索別斯基的總體指揮下及時(shí)趕到，并打破了圍攻。當(dāng)城墻即將被攻破時(shí)，大維齊爾被迫撤退，基督教聯(lián)軍追擊他并“解放”了許多曾經(jīng)的基督教地區(qū)，包括匈牙利和巴爾干地區(qū)，盡管其中一些地區(qū)在后來的世紀(jì)里被穆斯林重新征服。

Although the Ottoman Empire would keep its capital at Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) at the lix between Asia Minor and Eastern Europe, the Empire would —and did — conquer the Middle East to the shores of the Red Sea and its Muslim holy sites in Medina and Mecca (AND Jerusalem) and then conquered lands in Eastern Europe including Greece and north to the gates of Vienna (Austria) itself, before halted in 1683.

雖然奧斯曼帝國將其首都保持在伊斯坦布爾（前君士坦丁堡），這一地理位置連接了小亞細(xì)亞和東歐，但該帝國確實(shí)征服了中東地區(qū)，一直擴(kuò)展到紅海沿岸，包括穆斯林的圣地麥地那和麥加（以及耶路撒冷），隨后又征服了東歐的領(lǐng)土，包括希臘，甚至北至維也納（奧地利）城門，直到1683年才被阻止。

For the record, Vienna, Austria wasn’t ‘captured’ until Napoleon I briefly entered the city twice, in 1805 when a treaty of friendship was signed at Schonbrunn Palace after Napoleon’s victory at Austerlitz, and again in 1809 for a brief period. Vienna would be conquered ONCE MORE — by the Soviet Russians in 1945, who held the city until agreement at war’s end separated the city into ‘zones’ held by the Soviets, the British, American, French and the largest the Soviet zone, with the ‘city center’ being administered by all four together. This continued until Austria regained political independence in 1955. (Similar zones had been created in Berlin as well, which held ‘officially’ until the Berlin Wall was torn down by students and other participants in 1989. )

需要說明的是，維也納（奧地利）直到拿破侖一世短暫地進(jìn)入這座城市兩次才“被占領(lǐng)”。第一次是在1805年，當(dāng)時(shí)在奧斯特利茨戰(zhàn)役后，拿破侖在謝農(nóng)布倫宮簽署了友好條約；第二次是在1809年，拿破侖再次短暫進(jìn)入維也納。維也納還曾被蘇聯(lián)紅軍再次占領(lǐng)，時(shí)間是1945年，他們控制了這座城市，直到戰(zhàn)爭結(jié)束后，根據(jù)協(xié)議將城市劃分為由蘇聯(lián)、英國、美國、法國四國控制的“區(qū)域”，其中蘇聯(lián)區(qū)最大，市中心由四國共同管理。這種情況持續(xù)到1955年奧地利恢復(fù)政治獨(dú)立。（類似的占領(lǐng)區(qū)也在柏林創(chuàng)建，并一直‘正式’存在，直到1989年由學(xué)生和其他參與者拆除柏林墻。）
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Zak Casey
With the Enlightenment of the 17th century eventually came ideals of liberalism and nationalism, then eventually socialism, Com...ism and fascism. The old empires of Europe, especially those which incorporated many ethnic and/or religious groups generally succumbed to these new, revolutionary ideas, especially nationalism. I imagine that the non-Greek populations would have fought for independence to a great extent in the 1800s, as the non-Turk populations did in the Ottoman Empire.

隨著17世紀(jì)啟蒙運(yùn)動(dòng)的興起，逐漸出現(xiàn)了自由主義、民族主義，后來又出現(xiàn)了社會主義、共產(chǎn)主義和法西斯主義。特別是那些包含許多民族和/或宗教群體的古老歐洲帝國，普遍屈從于這些新興的革命性思想，尤其是民族主義。我想，19世紀(jì)時(shí)，非希臘族群可能會大力爭取獨(dú)立，就像奧斯曼帝國的非土耳其族群一樣。

Alternatively the other dominant revolutionary ideology, liberalism, may have shaped the Byzantine Empire. This would have likely resulted in the implementation of democracy and the status of emperor being reduced to a ceremonial role, or abolished altogether. In addition many of the non-Greek areas would likely vote for independence and either be granted it or engage in war to secure it, likely succeeding as independence wars fought with guerrila tactics have historically proved to be highly effective.

另一方面，另一種主導(dǎo)的革命性意識形態(tài)——自由主義，可能會對拜占庭帝國產(chǎn)生影響。這可能會導(dǎo)致民主制度的實(shí)施，并使皇帝的地位降至儀式性的角色，或者完全廢除。此外，許多非希臘地區(qū)可能會投票爭取獨(dú)立，要么獲得獨(dú)立，要么通過戰(zhàn)爭爭取獨(dú)立，歷史上，采用游擊戰(zhàn)術(shù)的獨(dú)立戰(zhàn)爭通常被證明是非常有效的。

Likely the Byzantine Empire would have experienced a similar fate as the Ottoman Empire did if it survived into the era of nationalism and liberalism. Today, it would probably not exist. I imagine Greece would exist in its place, but more powerful and with a greater population and extent of terrorities (primarily in Anatolia) than it does today. Likely a Byzantine dynasty would still exist too, but having formally relinquished their claim on the empire some decades ago much as the Osman dynasty has abandoned their claim on the Ottoman Empire.

如果拜占庭帝國在民族主義和自由主義時(shí)代幸存下來，它可能會經(jīng)歷類似于奧斯曼帝國的命運(yùn)。今天，它可能不會存在。我想象中，希臘會取而代之，但會更強(qiáng)大，人口和領(lǐng)土（主要是在安納托利亞地區(qū)）也比現(xiàn)在更廣闊?？赡苓€有一個(gè)拜占庭王朝存在，但像奧斯曼王朝放棄對奧斯曼帝國的主張一樣，這個(gè)拜占庭王朝也會在幾十年前正式放棄對帝國的主張。

Paul Georgian
If Byzantium had survived to modern times it is likely, it is likely that it would be a constitutional monarchy within a democratic frxwork. I believe the Imperial system would survive predicated on two things, one since the monarchy can be traced directly back to Augustus, eliminating it completely might be too much of a shock to the body politic and 2 if the Imperial family was intelligent at the time of the inevitable democratic reforms they would have gone with the flow and been a supporter of reform. Assuming the Bulgars and Serbs maintained their identity they would have eventually formed their own nations. That would leave a Byzantine state with all of Greece, some additional territory in the Balkans south of the Balkan mountains, Thrace and Macedonia and all or most of what is now Turkish Anatolia. In addition fully independent states of Georgia and Armenia would exist supported by Byzantium and fully allied to it. These 3 Christian allied states would be a strong buffer to Muslim domination of the Middle East. Given the entrepernurial nature of the Greek and Armenian people, it is likely our modern Byzantine State would certainly be as advanced as Italy and Spain, and probably the equal of France and Germany. And I, of course, would be living in Constantinople as a happily retired member of the Byzantine Commonwealth.

如果拜占庭帝國幸存至現(xiàn)代，它可能會成為一個(gè)在民主框架內(nèi)的君主立憲制國家。我認(rèn)為帝制會繼續(xù)存在，基于兩個(gè)因素：其一，由于君主制可以直接追溯到奧古斯都，徹底廢除可能對政治體制造成太大的沖擊；其二，如果在不可避免的民主改革時(shí)，皇室家族足夠聰明，他們會順應(yīng)潮流，支持改革。假設(shè)保加利亞人和塞爾維亞人保持了他們的身份，他們最終會形成自己的國家。這將使拜占庭帝國擁有全部希臘、巴爾干山脈以南的一些額外領(lǐng)土、色雷斯和馬其頓，以及現(xiàn)在土耳其安納托利亞的大部分或全部領(lǐng)土。此外，格魯吉亞和亞美尼亞將作為完全獨(dú)立的國家存在，得到拜占庭的支持，并與拜占庭結(jié)盟。這三個(gè)基督教盟國將成為抵御中東穆斯林統(tǒng)治的強(qiáng)大緩沖區(qū)?？紤]到希臘和亞美尼亞人的創(chuàng)業(yè)精神，我們現(xiàn)代的拜占庭國家很可能與意大利和西班牙一樣先進(jìn)，甚至可能與法國和德國齊平。而我，當(dāng)然，會作為拜占庭聯(lián)邦的一個(gè)幸福退休成員生活在君士坦丁堡。

Leon Brekmon
Yes, at many points during the Eastern Roman Empires existence there were mistakes made. If the Eastern Roman Empire had not rapidly expanded during Justinian's rule and wasted all their treasury on his dreams, the empire may have been able to defend off invaders such as the Muslim Caliphate. Time and time again the Eastern Romans could have focused more upon lasting as an empire, but corruption and internal crises plagued them especially towards the end of their days. But the state which would exist today would not be exactly like the Eastern Roman Empire just like Mr. Coopman mentioned, it may be the size of Greece except with control over Istanbul, or it might have a parliament, or some other government other than a monarchy.

是的，在東羅馬帝國的存在過程中，確實(shí)犯過許多錯(cuò)誤。如果東羅馬帝國在賈斯丁尼安統(tǒng)治期間沒有急于擴(kuò)張，并將所有的國庫用于他的夢想，帝國可能能夠抵御像穆斯林哈里發(fā)這樣的入侵者。東羅馬人一次又一次地有機(jī)會專注于帝國的持久存在，但腐敗和內(nèi)部危機(jī)特別是在帝國晚期困擾了他們。但今天存在的國家可能不會完全像東羅馬帝國，正如庫普曼先生提到的那樣，它可能只是希臘的規(guī)模，卻控制了伊斯坦布爾，或者它可能有一個(gè)議會，或其他非君主制的政府形式。

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