如果有些中國(guó)人能夠流利地說(shuō)英語(yǔ),那么一些西方人是否也有可能流利地說(shuō)普通話?
If it is technically possible for some Chinese to speak English fluently, is it possible that some Westerners would be able to speak Mandarin fluently?譯文簡(jiǎn)介
網(wǎng)友:是的,為什么不呢?我在研究生期間曾讀過(guò)一個(gè)關(guān)于語(yǔ)言習(xí)得的案例研究。案例涉及一對(duì)雙胞胎,母親是德國(guó)人,父親是美國(guó)人。母親只用德語(yǔ)與孩子們交流,父親只用英語(yǔ)交流。最初,他們說(shuō)的是兩種語(yǔ)言的混合。但隨著年齡的增長(zhǎng),他們開(kāi)始區(qū)分這兩種語(yǔ)言,并且變得能流利地使用兩種語(yǔ)言。
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Yes, why wouldn’t it be? When I was in graduate school, I had to read a case study about language acquisition. The case involved a set of twins where the mother was from Germany and the father was an American. The mother would speak to the children only in German and the father would speak to them only in English. Initially, they spoke a mix of the two languages. But as they grew older, they began to separate the two languages and became fluent in both.
是的,為什么不呢?我在研究生期間曾讀過(guò)一個(gè)關(guān)于語(yǔ)言習(xí)得的案例研究。案例涉及一對(duì)雙胞胎,母親是德國(guó)人,父親是美國(guó)人。母親只用德語(yǔ)與孩子們交流,父親只用英語(yǔ)交流。最初,他們說(shuō)的是兩種語(yǔ)言的混合。但隨著年齡的增長(zhǎng),他們開(kāi)始區(qū)分這兩種語(yǔ)言,并且變得能流利地使用兩種語(yǔ)言。
然而,如果你談?wù)摰氖浅赡耆嗽噲D學(xué)習(xí)普通話或英語(yǔ)作為第二語(yǔ)言的情況,達(dá)到流利可能會(huì)更加困難。盡管如此,只要有足夠的學(xué)習(xí)、練習(xí)和機(jī)會(huì)完全沉浸在目標(biāo)語(yǔ)言中,從技術(shù)上講達(dá)到流利是可能的。
Why not?
At age 18, linguistically an adult, I was fluent only in my native American English. Then I moved to Israel. That was 56 years ago, and in all that time I have never lived in an English speaking neighborhood. I can think in Hebrew quite effortlessly. It is not a problem. I grew up speaking an Indo-European language and I live my daily life in a Semitic language. Why couldn’t I have learned some form of Chinese if that had been what my circumstances required? And why wouldn’t that work in the other direction?
為什么不呢?在18歲時(shí),我在語(yǔ)言上已經(jīng)成年,但只會(huì)流利使用我的母語(yǔ)美式英語(yǔ)。然后我搬到了以色列。這已經(jīng)是56年前的事了,在那段時(shí)間里,我從未住在說(shuō)英語(yǔ)的社區(qū)里。我可以毫不費(fèi)力地用希伯來(lái)語(yǔ)思考。這沒(méi)有問(wèn)題。我從小講印歐語(yǔ)言,現(xiàn)在我的日常生活是在閃米特語(yǔ)言中度過(guò)的。如果我的環(huán)境需要我學(xué)習(xí)某種形式的中文,我為什么不能學(xué)會(huì)呢?為什么反過(guò)來(lái)就不行呢?
?當(dāng)然,我說(shuō)的是帶美式口音的希伯來(lái)語(yǔ)。那又怎樣? 當(dāng)你作為一個(gè)成年人學(xué)習(xí)一門語(yǔ)言時(shí),大多數(shù)情況下語(yǔ)音是不完美的。但只要你不是在偽裝自己,這有什么關(guān)系呢?
Yes you can. You looking for scholar who know some foreign liaison and embassy grade Mandarin who citizen of States?
You can and apply borrowed Latin phonics and language to learn translated Chinese reading and also oral speech. What end, and you can type and compile Chinese now based on mandarin spelling standard. That they don’t language this way, you keep typing pinyin and expecting this equivalent to written Chinese based on computer compiler. They will grant some officiation but most nearly pidgin use on telecom internet
是的,你可以做到。你在尋找懂得一些外事和大使級(jí)漢語(yǔ)的美國(guó)公民學(xué)者嗎?你可以應(yīng)用借用的拉丁字母音標(biāo)和語(yǔ)言來(lái)學(xué)習(xí)翻譯的中文閱讀和口語(yǔ)。最終,你現(xiàn)在可以基于漢語(yǔ)拼音標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來(lái)輸入和編寫中文。他們并不使用這種方式的語(yǔ)言,你繼續(xù)使用拼音輸入并期望它等同于書面中文,基于計(jì)算機(jī)編譯器。雖然他們會(huì)授予一些官方認(rèn)證,但幾乎都是在電信互聯(lián)網(wǎng)中使用的簡(jiǎn)化語(yǔ)言。
So understand that inferior position, if you actually more computer user for keyboard and compiler, rather than someone who in speech do so, or listening do so, based on hand writing this stuff
首先,普通話作為書寫系統(tǒng)中的一種口語(yǔ)語(yǔ)言來(lái)閱讀和口語(yǔ)交流,如果你不學(xué)習(xí)并且只是憑聽(tīng)到或說(shuō)出的內(nèi)容來(lái)書寫,這實(shí)際上并不是在真正使用中文。因此,你要理解這種劣勢(shì),如果你更多的是計(jì)算機(jī)用戶,使用鍵盤和編譯器,而不是依賴口語(yǔ)或聽(tīng)力來(lái)書寫這些內(nèi)容,理解這一點(diǎn)很重要。
Yes one Chinese friend of mine went to Oakham , a posh school near my home , he has a ‘better’ accent than me
I know a Brit who is fluent in 4 Chinese languages ,and when I needed a complicated character read read was advised to contact him
They know each other
?我有一個(gè)中國(guó)朋友去過(guò)我家附近的一個(gè)高級(jí)學(xué)?!獖W克漢姆,他的口音比我還要“好”。
我認(rèn)識(shí)一個(gè)英國(guó)人,他能流利使用四種中文,并且當(dāng)我需要讀一個(gè)復(fù)雜的漢字時(shí),別人建議我聯(lián)系他。他們彼此認(rèn)識(shí)。
If I was sentenced in China, got imprisoned and had to share a cell with several Chinese cellmates, they’d learn Russian, English and maybe some Ukrainian, but I wouldn’t be able to learn any Mandarin at all. I’m good at learning languages, I’m hard-working, and my memory is not bad. However, tonal languages aren’t my forte, to put it mildly. I don’t hear any tones at all.
Nevertheless, many people are more intelligent than me. These people can speak Mandarin.
如果我在中國(guó)被判刑入獄,并且需要和幾個(gè)中國(guó)囚犯共用一個(gè)牢房,他們會(huì)學(xué)俄語(yǔ)、英語(yǔ),甚至可能學(xué)烏克蘭語(yǔ),但我卻無(wú)法學(xué)到任何普通話。我擅長(zhǎng)學(xué)習(xí)語(yǔ)言,工作努力,記憶力也不錯(cuò)。然而,聲調(diào)語(yǔ)言對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)并不擅長(zhǎng),我完全聽(tīng)不出聲調(diào)。盡管如此,許多人比我聰明,他們能說(shuō)普通話。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
There is nothing merely “technically possible” about any of that. Racial origin, DNA, or where one resides do not, taken alone, limit which languages a person is able to learn. If you want to get technical about it, people can TECHNICALLY speak some language “fluently,” while still having a foreign accent. There are many, many people who can do these things. There are even Chinese Westerners. They, too, can speak as many languages as they are able to learn.
這些情況都不僅僅是“技術(shù)上可能”的問(wèn)題。種族來(lái)源、DNA 或者居住地,單獨(dú)來(lái)看,并不會(huì)限制一個(gè)人學(xué)習(xí)哪些語(yǔ)言。如果要講技術(shù)上的話,人們可以“流利”地說(shuō)某種語(yǔ)言,同時(shí)仍然有外國(guó)口音。有很多很多人可以做這些事情。甚至還有中國(guó)的西方人。他們也能說(shuō)盡可能多的語(yǔ)言,因?yàn)樗麄兡軌驅(qū)W習(xí)。
I'm feeling sad that people now think it's impossible to learn a language to make themselves fluent in that language. yk, it just takes hard work and stamina in some ways!
我感到難過(guò)的是,現(xiàn)在人們認(rèn)為不可能學(xué)會(huì)一種語(yǔ)言達(dá)到流利的程度。其實(shí),只要努力工作和堅(jiān)持,就可以做到!
Oh sure, the problem is what is fluent.
In that loads of people claim Winston Stergil (SerpentZA) is completely fluent, except his entire vocabulary can be counted on one hand.
I meet ‘fluency’ requirements in Chinese and can read well over 5000 characters. Most Chinese consider me to be completely illiterate though :D
哦,當(dāng)然,問(wèn)題在于什么是流利。很多人認(rèn)為溫斯頓·斯特吉爾(SerpentZA)完全流利,但他的整個(gè)詞匯量可以用一只手?jǐn)?shù)過(guò)來(lái)。我在中文中滿足了‘流利’的要求,能讀懂超過(guò)5000個(gè)漢字,大多數(shù)中國(guó)人認(rèn)為我完全是文盲
The condition is irrelevant.
Yes, it is possible for some Westerners to speak Mandarin fluently, regardless of whether it is technically possible for zero, some, many, or all Chinese people to speak English fluently.
條件無(wú)關(guān)緊要。
是的,對(duì)于一些西方人來(lái)說(shuō),說(shuō)一口流利的普通話是可能的,不管從技術(shù)上講,是否所有的中國(guó)人都能說(shuō)一口流利的英語(yǔ)。
Up to about 2 billion.
There are just over 1 billion speakers of Chinese (many native speakers of Mandarin, but most of the rest also speak Mandarin, plus a few second language speakers of Mandarin from elsewhere).
There are also over 1 billion English speakers, more than half of whom are non-native speakers. So their degree of fluency may vary, but I think you would “be able to talk to” them in most cases.
大約有20億人左右。 有超過(guò)10億人講中文(其中許多人是普通話的母語(yǔ)者,但大多數(shù)其他人也講普通話,還有一些來(lái)自其他地方的普通話二語(yǔ)者)。 另外,還有超過(guò)10億人講英語(yǔ),其中一半以上是非母語(yǔ)者。因此他們的流利程度可能有所不同,但我認(rèn)為你在大多數(shù)情況下“能夠與他們交流”。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
假設(shè)每種語(yǔ)言大約有11億人,總共有22億人。但是,許多普通話講者也會(huì)講英語(yǔ)(也有一些英語(yǔ)講者會(huì)講普通話),所以確實(shí)存在一些重疊??傮w來(lái)說(shuō),我認(rèn)為重疊部分不會(huì)超過(guò)2億,因此2億是一個(gè)合理的估算。(我們可能還需要稍微向下調(diào)整一下這個(gè)數(shù)字,因?yàn)橹丿B的情況可能更多一些。也許中文講者之間的重疊更多,或者有些人可能不真正流利于這兩種語(yǔ)言等等。但也有可能一些非母語(yǔ)的英語(yǔ)使用者沒(méi)有被包含在這個(gè)估算中。所以很難確定。如果你真的在意流利程度,你需要逐個(gè)測(cè)試。因此,這個(gè)估算是合理的。)
According to data from the Summer 2023 Global Language Census, there are approximately 1.3 billion native Mandarin speakers and 1.3 billion native English speakers globally. However, there is significant overlap between these populations, as many individuals are fluent in both languages.
A rough estimate is that a person fluent in both Mandarin and English would be able to communicate with around 2 billion people worldwide - the sum of native Mandarin and English speakers, minus the overlap. This represents over a quarter of the global population that could be reached through fluency in these two widely spoken languages.
根據(jù)2023年夏季全球語(yǔ)言普查的數(shù)據(jù),全球大約有13億普通話母語(yǔ)者和13億英語(yǔ)母語(yǔ)者。然而,這兩個(gè)群體之間有很大的重疊,因?yàn)樵S多人都能流利地使用這兩種語(yǔ)言。
粗略估計(jì),一個(gè)同時(shí)流利于普通話和英語(yǔ)的人能夠與大約20億人溝通——這是普通話和英語(yǔ)母語(yǔ)者的總和,減去重疊部分。這代表了全球超過(guò)四分之一的人口可以通過(guò)流利掌握這兩種廣泛使用的語(yǔ)言來(lái)溝通。
I am interested in learning Mandarin. But for now, I have 0% proficiency in it. So I am not a good candidate to answer your question.
But if I attempt to answer it, I would say I could speak to 80% of people in China. 90% of people in the United Kingdom. Perhaps 70% in Europe. Around 55% in Asia. 40% Africa.
This is a rough estimate which may be accurate by 40%. So there you have it, I just confused you and I am not far behind either.
我對(duì)學(xué)習(xí)普通話很感興趣。但目前我對(duì)普通話的熟練度為0%。所以我不適合回答你的問(wèn)題。 不過(guò),如果我嘗試回答的話,我會(huì)說(shuō)我可以和80%的中國(guó)人和90%的英國(guó)人說(shuō)話。也許在歐洲能與70%的人交流。在亞洲大約55%。在非洲大約40%。 這是一個(gè)粗略的估計(jì),準(zhǔn)確度可能在40%左右。所以你看,我剛剛讓你困惑了一下,我也不算落后。
This sort of reminds me of a discussion I heard about the Welch language. I heard it said that if you speak Welch you can talk to about 20 percent of the people in Wales. If you speak English, you can talk to about 20 percent of the people in the world.
這讓我想起我聽(tīng)到過(guò)的一次討論關(guān)于威爾士語(yǔ)的情況。我聽(tīng)說(shuō),如果你會(huì)說(shuō)威爾士語(yǔ),你可以與大約20%的威爾士人交流。如果你會(huì)說(shuō)英語(yǔ),你可以與世界上大約20%的人交流。
well, china and USA are all super countries, so, many countries in this world are prefer to learn Chinese and english, even there are many assistants in the shop can speak Chinese and english. so if we can speak these languages we can speak to more than 1/2 people all around the world.
嗯,中國(guó)和美國(guó)都是超級(jí)大國(guó),所以世界上許多國(guó)家的人都愿意學(xué)習(xí)中文和英語(yǔ),甚至許多商店里的助手都能說(shuō)中文和英語(yǔ)。因此,如果我們能說(shuō)這些語(yǔ)言,我們就能與全球超過(guò)一半的人交流。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Wikipedia says the population of mandarin speakers is roughly 1.2 billion and there are 1.6 billions people who speak English. It is not easy to get the accurate number though.
維基百科稱,說(shuō)普通話的人口約為12億,說(shuō)英語(yǔ)的人口約為16億。然而,要得到準(zhǔn)確的數(shù)字并不容易。