如果你無法遷移，你會(huì)選擇作為中產(chǎn)階級(jí)生活在第三世界國家，還是生活在美國？（下）

TEAM
Rich in a third world country. This is not even close.
Being poor in the US is better than being poor in Bangladesh, but it’s still no walk in the park.
There is poverty and even misery all around you, but you don’t have to look at it if you don’t want to. You can live your life secluded in the restaurants and places of entertainment visited by people in your own social class. The only poor people you will see are your maids and your gardener. You can build yourself a palace surrounded by high walls that will keep prying eyes at bay and ignore the rare mendicants you see in the streets from the vantage point of your luxury car.

在第三世界國家富有，這種情況和在美國相比根本不能相提并論。
在美國當(dāng)窮人比在孟加拉國當(dāng)窮人好，但也還是不容易。
貧窮，甚至痛苦都圍繞在你的周圍，但如果你不想看，你就不需要看。你可以生活在和自己同社會(huì)階層的人光顧的餐館以及娛樂場(chǎng)所，你能見到的窮人就只有你的女傭和園丁，你可以為自己建造一座高墻環(huán)繞的宮殿，讓窺視者望而卻步，并坐在豪華轎車上時(shí)忽略到街上的乞丐。

My ambition is the kind that makes me want to achieve financial independence so that I will not have to be bossed around by anyone. I don’t enjoy bossing people around at all. I am almost apologetic when asking the hospital staff to do things for me. Living in a 3rd world country, even as a rich man, is not my dream. But there is no denying that it would be vastly preferable to being poor in the US.

我的抱負(fù)是實(shí)現(xiàn)經(jīng)濟(jì)獨(dú)立，這樣我就不會(huì)為任何人所左右。我一點(diǎn)也不喜歡指揮別人。當(dāng)我讓醫(yī)院的工作人員為我做事時(shí)，我都會(huì)感到很抱歉。在第三世界國家生活，即便是作為富人，也不是我所想的。但不可否認(rèn)的是，在美國當(dāng)窮人會(huì)（比在窮國當(dāng)窮人）要好過得多。

Fred Opere
Before answering this question it is good to set a few parameters. First there’s a vast disparity between Third World countries, from Chad to Malaysia. Second, let’ settle on a fixed amount of annual income in each country (whether salary or through investments) of $30,000 per year ($2,500 per month). One may argue that $30k per month is not poor in the U.S. but it is certainly lower middle class. Third, my background is as a Kenyan American who has lived in the US for 20 years and has traveled to over a dozen African countries, so I am in a position to comment only on Third World African countries. Fourth, there’s a major difference in this question whether you are single or you are married and have a family. Being single the advantages of living wealthy in a Third World are not as pronounced but for a family it absolutely is.

在回答這個(gè)問題之前，最好先設(shè)置幾個(gè)參數(shù)。第一，從乍得到馬來西亞，第三世界國家之間也存在著巨大的差距。第二，讓我們以每個(gè)國家每年$ 30,000（每月$ 2,500）的固定年收入（無論是工資收入還是投資收入）為基礎(chǔ)。有人可能會(huì)說，每月3萬美元在美國并不算貧窮，但肯定是中下階層。第三，我的背景是肯尼亞裔美國人，在美國生活了20年，去過十幾個(gè)非洲國家，所以我也只能評(píng)論第三世界的非洲國家。第四，這個(gè)問題主要區(qū)別在于你是單身還是已婚并有家庭。單身人士在第三世界國家生活富裕的優(yōu)勢(shì)并不明顯，但對(duì)一個(gè)家庭來說就不太好。

The obvious advantages in merely living in the US are that things generally work and there’s rule of law. In Africa, it depends what country you are in. Botswana and Rwanda are well countries with generally good rule of law (although Rwanda may be a bit wanting in the area of civil liberties). Another advantage in the US is that you can pretty much buy anything although with a salary of $30k there may be limitations.

在美國生活的明顯好處是，一切事情都是正常運(yùn)作的，并且有法可依。在非洲，這就要取決于你所在的國家或地區(qū)。像博茨瓦納和盧旺達(dá)就是法治良好的國家（不過盧旺達(dá)在公民自由方面可能會(huì)有所欠缺）。在美國的另一個(gè)優(yōu)勢(shì)是，你幾乎可以買到任何東西，盡管3萬美元的薪水可能會(huì)有所限制。

In Third World countries, money buys you time since wages are low. At $30k a year you will be able to afford a live in nanny and probably a driver, if you so choose. If you are single these issues may not be relevant to you but IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY it is a major consideration. It means that both parents can work if they so choose with one’s children still under personalized care.
Cost of living in Third World countries are generally lower (provided you don’t chose to live like an expat). Hence, you’ll have way more disposable income with your $30k/year than in the US. There a few exceptions though like Angola that are extremely expensive, however.
Depending on the country, the vacation laws are much more liberal than in the U.S. At the $30k level, you would be lucky to have more than 10 days vacation in the U.S. In most African countries, the law doesn’t allow less than 20 days. So if you in a Third World country you would have more disposable income and more leisure to enjoy it.

在第三世界國家，由于工資低，金錢可以為你贏得更多時(shí)間。如果你愿意的話，年薪3萬美元，你可以負(fù)擔(dān)起一個(gè)住家保姆和一個(gè)司機(jī)。如果你是單身，這些問題可能與你無關(guān)，但是如果你有家人，這是一個(gè)主要考慮的因素。這意味著父母雙方都可以工作，同時(shí)，他們的孩子依然可以受到細(xì)心的照顧。
第三世界國家的生活成本通常較低(前提是你沒有選擇像西方人一樣生活)。因此，你每年3萬美元的可支配收入會(huì)比在美國多很多。不過，也有一些例外，比如安哥拉，那里的物價(jià)就非常昂貴。
由于國家的不同，休假方面的法律也比美國寬松得多。在3萬美元的水平之上，你在美國能有10天以上的假期就已經(jīng)很幸運(yùn)了。而在大多數(shù)非洲國家，法律不允許少于20天的假期。所以，如果你在第三世界國家，你會(huì)有更多的可支配收入和更多的閑暇時(shí)間來享受。

Basically, countries like Botswana, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana, Cote d’Ivoire, Senegal, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, etc. are very nice to lice in if you have some money. If the Third World country is politically stable and generally well run then it is a no brainer: living in such countries would be far better experience than being poor in the U.S. and as some have mentioned it is not even close. However, if it is countries like Haiti, Niger, Chad, Yemen, North Korea, etc. I would say the U.S.
Now if you change the parameters to having $300,000/year in a Third World country vs. $30,000/year in the U.S. then there's no debate. Third World country all the way because you could visit the U.S. any time.
P. S. I am a U.S. living in Kenya and my quality of life is superior than what I could enjoy in the U.S. for my family of 5. I shudder to think if moving back to the U.S. with my young children. However, once they are teenagers, moving back to the U.S. would look to be an attractive proposition.

基本上，如果你有錢的話，博茨瓦納、南非、肯尼亞、加納、科特迪瓦、塞內(nèi)加爾、馬來西亞、印度尼西亞、印度等國家都是很好的旅游目的地。如果第三世界國家政治穩(wěn)定，總體運(yùn)行良好，那就不需要?jiǎng)幽X筋了:生活在這些國家要比在美國貧窮好得多，就像一些人提到的那樣，甚至還差得遠(yuǎn)呢。當(dāng)然，如果是像海地、尼日爾、乍得、也門、朝鮮等國家。那我會(huì)選美國。
現(xiàn)在如果你把參數(shù)改成30萬美元/年在第三世界國家和3萬美元/年在美國，那就沒有爭(zhēng)議了。因?yàn)槟汶S時(shí)都可以去美國。
附注:我是一個(gè)住在肯尼亞的美國人，我的生活質(zhì)量比我一家5口在美國的生活質(zhì)量要好。我不禁思索是否要帶著年幼的孩子搬回美國。然而，如果他們是青少年，搬回美國將是一個(gè)很有有吸引力的提議。

Bengt Persson, Attempting to understand complex systems for 50 years
As most answers say “it’s better to be rich in 3rd world country than poor in US”.
If you adjust the question to “Would you rather be rich in a third world country or poor in a Western social welfare nation, assuming you can't move?” it becomes more interesting.
Being poor in e.g. Norway is quite decent. You can count on housing, food and medical care if needed. Even a hamburger job pays enough to live on a 40h work week and afford to travel abroad for 4 weeks a year on you vacation (oops does that count as move?).
Though, the standard of living by far do not match the upper class in 3rd world and you are on the lower end of the local social stairway.
On the other hand You live in a safe country, hardy any traffic accidents, robberies, murders, revolutions or hurricanes to worry about.
A rather tough choice for most, especially if you have a conscience.

就像大多數(shù)人回答說的那樣，“在第三世界國家富?？偙仍诿绹毟F好”。
如果你把問題改成“假如你不能搬家，你愿意在第三世界國家富裕還是愿意在西方福利國家貧窮?”“這就變得更有趣了。
在挪威這樣的貧窮國家生活是相當(dāng)體面的。如果有需要，你可以依靠住房、食物和醫(yī)療補(bǔ)助。即使是一份漢堡式的工作，其每周工作40個(gè)小時(shí)的收入也足以支撐生活，并負(fù)擔(dān)得起每年出國度假4周的費(fèi)用(哎呀，這算不算搬家?)
盡管如此，生活水平遠(yuǎn)不如第三世界的上層階級(jí)，你任然處于當(dāng)?shù)厣鐣?huì)階梯的低層。
另一方面來說，你生活在一個(gè)安全的國家，幾乎不必?fù)?dān)心任何交通事故，搶劫，謀殺，革命或颶風(fēng)。
對(duì)于大多數(shù)人而言，這是一個(gè)相當(dāng)艱難的選擇，尤其是你有良心的話。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Vincent Guidry, Software Engineer at NCR (2019-present)
I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here. The question stated you couldn’t move. It didn’t say you had to stay poor. If I couldn’t take advantage of American income mobility then the question is just as much of a no-brainer as everyone else says.
Notice the question said ‘poor’, not ‘homeless’. If I’m poor, then at least I have my person, a place to live, and the ability to make and execute a plan. I’ve been poor before. It sucked, so I worked hard until it didn’t suck so much
If I can take advantage of American economic mobility, then that means realistically speaking, it’s a choice between being rich in a third-world country and being middle class in America. And if I can’t, then am I really living in America?
And so that’s actually a choice I’ve seen people make. Well-off families send their kids off to America to go to school all the time and in general, once here, those kids don’t want to move back home.
If I had to put a finger on why, I would have to say it’s rigid, traditional culture. Moving to the US feels like a breath of fresh air from all that oppressiveness, even though they can no longer take advantage of family wealth, even though they will just be normal middle class Americans their whole lives. That tradeoff appears to be worth it, even if the tradeoff between being rich there and poor here isn’t. .

我來唱反調(diào)。問題是你不能搬家。但這并不是說你必須保持貧窮。如果我不能利用美國的收入流動(dòng)性，那么這個(gè)問題就像其他人說的那樣，是一個(gè)顯而易見的問題。
請(qǐng)注意，問題是“貧窮”，而不是“無家可歸”。如果我很窮，那么至少我還有一個(gè)可以居住的地方以及制定和執(zhí)行計(jì)劃的能力。我以前很窮，過得很不好，所以我努力工作直到好起來。
如果我可以利用美國的經(jīng)濟(jì)流動(dòng)性，那么從現(xiàn)實(shí)的角度講，這是在第三世界國家富裕和在美國成為中產(chǎn)階級(jí)之間做出選擇。如果我不能，那我真的要選擇美國嗎？
我看到很多人做出這樣的選擇。富裕的家庭總是把孩子送到美國去上學(xué)，一般來說，一旦到了美國，這些孩子就不會(huì)想回家了。
如果非要我說原因的話，我會(huì)說這是僵化的傳統(tǒng)文化。搬到美國，感覺就像從壓迫中呼吸到了新鮮空氣，盡管他們?cè)僖膊荒芾眉依锏呢?cái)富，盡管他們一生都只是普通的美國中產(chǎn)階級(jí)。這種權(quán)衡似乎是值得的，即使那里的富人和窮人之間的權(quán)衡是不值得的。

As an aside, I get a little eye-rolly whenever people in America with a dead horse they want to beat start talking about the poor. It seems like whenever they hear this phrase they get this picture in their mind of someone who has been rendered totally and completely helpless by “the system.” The poster child for frustrated liberalism. And when I point out that there are different gradations to being poor, that being poor in America is not about a dollar figure in your bank account, they finger me for an evil conservative and tell me I’m not talking about the “real poor.”
So let me say that the only thing truly required of anyone who wants to take advantage of America’s limited economic mobility is to make and follow through on a plan, and to get yourself back up and do it again, if and when that plan fails. You’d be absolutely amazed at the number of people here who can’t do that. I’ve seen many many people in life who were hard up for awhile and then pulled themselves out of it. I’ve also seen many people who just couldn’t do it no matter what.
This fact, that you can pull yourself out of poverty by your own bootstraps, should be a no-brainer, but apparently it clashes hard with people’s political beliefs. Even when they’re doing it, or they’ve done it. No they were lucky, or privileged or whatever.

說句題外話，每當(dāng)美國人想要死馬當(dāng)活馬醫(yī)的時(shí)候，開始談?wù)摳F人的時(shí)候，我都會(huì)有點(diǎn)想翻白眼。似乎每當(dāng)聽到這句話，他們腦海中就會(huì)浮現(xiàn)出這樣一幅畫面:一個(gè)被“體制”弄得完全無助的人，一個(gè)失意的自由主義的典型代表。當(dāng)我指出貧窮有不同的等級(jí)，在美國貧窮并不僅僅是你銀行賬戶里的錢時(shí)，他們認(rèn)為我是邪惡的保守主義者，并告訴我我說的不是“真正的窮人”。
因此，我要說的是，對(duì)于任何想利用美國有限的經(jīng)濟(jì)流動(dòng)性的人來說，唯一真正需要做的就是制定并貫徹執(zhí)行一個(gè)計(jì)劃，如果這個(gè)計(jì)劃失敗了，就讓自己振作起來，再做一次。你一定會(huì)驚訝于這里有多少人做不到。我看到生活中許多人苦苦掙扎了一段時(shí)間，然后又從中擺脫出來。我也看到很多人無論如何都做不到。
你可以通過自己的努力擺脫貧困，這是顯而易見的事實(shí)，但顯然它與人們的政治信仰有很大沖突。即使他們正在做，或者已經(jīng)做了?；蛘咚麄兒苄疫\(yùn)，或者有特權(quán)，或者別的什么。

Peter T Mayer, Quora Writer | Love Surveys | Designer
I traveled to a few countries on my life and some of them were poor countries, third world countries. There were a couple of countries that I really disliked. I will not name them out of respect to people from there, but I disliked these places enough that I would not want to go back there even as tourists.
In both of these occasions I was staying in nice “rich” places and even though I went to the streets to experience the local culture and history, I lived during those weeks like a rich Westener. Still, despite the high standard of living, I left uninspired and disappointed.
At the same time, I like America, the good ol’ USA. And after I immigrated here for a few years I lived like a poor person. I made about 1000–1100 dollars a month and made lots of sacrifices to save at least half of it. Despite living like that, within these life conditions of almost poverty, I loved it and I knew that through hard work and sacrifice I could get ahead.

我一生中曾去過幾個(gè)國家，其中一些是貧窮第三世界國家。有幾個(gè)國家我真的不喜歡。出于對(duì)那里人的尊重，我不會(huì)說出它們的名字，但我非常不喜歡這些地方，即使是作為游客，我也不想再回到那里。
在兩種情況下，我都住在“富?！钡暮玫胤?，盡管我走上街頭去體驗(yàn)當(dāng)?shù)氐奈幕蜌v史，但在那幾周，我仍像個(gè)富裕的西方人一樣生活。然而，盡管生活水平很高，我離開時(shí)卻毫無感覺，并感到失望。
同時(shí)，我喜歡美國，偉大的美國。在我移民到這里后的幾年里，我過得像個(gè)窮人。我每個(gè)月賺了1000-1100美元，并且做出了很多犧牲來節(jié)省至少一半的錢。盡管生活如此，在這種幾乎貧窮的生活條件下，我還是喜歡它，并且我知道通過努力工作和犧牲可以取得成功。

Also I like that here you have freedom:
· You can express yourself the way you want, you can choose your religion, you can move to the mountains, or NYC or the desert in Nevada, or a Florida beach.
· You can choose a career and eventually, after studying or getting some experience in it by climbing the ladder, you can be somebody in it.
· You can be gay or straight…
You can be who you want to be,, where you want to be and so on.

我也喜歡這里的自由：
你可以以你想要的方式表達(dá)你自己，你可以選擇你的宗教，你可以搬到山區(qū)，或紐約，或內(nèi)華達(dá)州的沙漠，或佛羅里達(dá)的海灘。
你可以選擇一個(gè)職業(yè)，最終，在學(xué)習(xí)不斷獲得一些經(jīng)驗(yàn)后，你可以成為其中的一員。
你可以是同性戀或異性戀，你可以成為你想成為的人，去你想去的地方等等。

In some third world countries people are oppressed. Especially certain types or certain social classes.
I could not live rich there knowing that across the street from me a family is suffering because they want to be somebody they cannot be.

在一些第三世界國家，人們受到了壓迫，尤其是某些類型或者某些社會(huì)階層。
如果我知道街對(duì)面有一家人因?yàn)橄氤蔀椴豢赡艹蔀榈娜硕芸?，我是不?huì)在那里過富裕生活的。

Greg Eaton
Rich in a third world country. This isn’t the 1950s or 1990s. This is 2019 and the poorest of poor countries have access to luxuries that frankly didn’t exist prior. Plus you have to define rich if you’re talking what we consider rich in America than absolutely. Money goes extremely far in a 3rd world nation. You can have a private military just about, have the most gorgeous women (coming from a man’s perspective here), still get the exact same luxuries a rich American can (more expensive though), and most of all once you’re rich in a 3rd world nation your money multiplies. The term rich gets richer is especially true in those nations. Now if it becomes war torn and that is possible your life of bliss would end and your money would mean nothing. It is certainly possible for a third world nation to erupt into war. Yet should that war never come to pass you will live a life of bliss. I can’t believe that’s really a question.

選擇在第三世界國家富有。這不是20世紀(jì)50年代或90年代，而是2019年，貧窮國家中最貧窮的人也可以享受到以前沒有的奢侈品。另外，如果你說的是我們認(rèn)為的美國富人，而不是絕對(duì)的富人，那么你必須給富人下個(gè)定義。在一個(gè)第三世界國家，錢的作用非常大。你可以擁有一支私人軍隊(duì)，擁有最漂亮的女人(從一個(gè)男人的角度來看)，可以得到和美國富人一樣的奢侈品(盡管更貴)，最重要的是，一旦你在第三世界國家富有，你的錢會(huì)倍增。富人更富這個(gè)詞在這些國家尤其如此。現(xiàn)在，如果它被戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)破壞，你的幸福生活可能會(huì)結(jié)束，你的錢將毫無意義。第三世界國家爆發(fā)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)當(dāng)然是可能的。然而，如果那場(chǎng)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)永遠(yuǎn)不發(fā)生，你將一直過著幸福的生活。我不敢相信這真的是個(gè)問題。

James Otter, PhD
I am comfortably off in South Africa and prefer it that way. I have been to the United States and I thought was very nice. However, I prefer South Africa, even if I could have the equivalent wealth in the United States. I shall be 85 in February. I have four jobs and there is demand for my services. I get treated with respect. In my native country the UK you are written off at 60 and I reckon the United States would be the same. From what I have seen on the media being poor in the United States appears to be about the same as it is in South Africa. The United States law enforcement appears to be more aggressive and racially inclined.

我在南非過得很舒服，我更喜歡這樣的生活。我去過美國，我覺得那里很好。然而，我更喜歡南非，即使我可以在美國擁有同樣的財(cái)富。到二月份我就85歲了。我有四份工作，都需要我提供服務(wù)。我得到了（別人的）尊重。在我的祖國英國，你60歲就要退休了，我認(rèn)為美國也會(huì)是一樣。從我在媒體上了解到的情況來看，美國的窮人似乎和南非的窮人差不多。美國的執(zhí)法部門似乎也更激進(jìn)，更有種族傾向。