中國秘密的女性專用語言
China’s secret, female-only language譯文簡介
南華早報(bào)報(bào)道中國獨(dú)特的非物質(zhì)文化遺產(chǎn)——女書。引發(fā)網(wǎng)友的好奇與爭論。
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“Women are forbidden from reading.”
“We will invent our own writing system that men can’t read.”
“女人被禁止閱讀?!?br /> “我們就發(fā)明一種男人看不懂的文字系統(tǒng)?!?/b>
I just want to point out there is a misconception of Nüshu as a language---No. It is actually only a scxt used to render (a regional variety of) the Chinese language, in parallel with Hanzi.
我只想指出,把女書理解為一門語言是一種誤解——它并不是。它實(shí)際上只是一種書寫漢語(的一種方言)的文字,與漢字并列。
3個回復(fù)
@一玉
是的!作為一個中國人,我覺得向人們解釋文字系統(tǒng)和口語之間的區(qū)別非常累。我們有很多方言,但當(dāng)人們本該用“普通話”這個詞,卻都用Chinese來代替。
Glad your comment was at the top, when I saw 永 on their pad and scxt beneath it I understood what was going on and glad you're here to say so, woulda had to go and look it up :D
很高興你的評論在最上面,當(dāng)我看到他們的墊子上寫著“永”字和下面的文字時,我就明白了發(fā)生了什么,很高興你在這里說出來,否則我還得去查一下 :D
Yes, language =/= writing
是的,語言不等于文字
This is similar to the hiragana in japanese whereby back then only men were allowed to use kanji.
這類似于日語中的平假名,當(dāng)時只有男人被允許使用漢字。
29個回復(fù)
Actually katakana for men
實(shí)際上是片假名給男人用
Whaa? A genuine fun-fact that no-one teaches? They should teach this more - this is cool!
什么?一個沒人教的有趣事實(shí)?他們應(yīng)該多教教這個——這很酷!
Yes, but in Japanese, men knows both just don’t use it. For nushu only women are allowed to know this
是的,但在日語中,男人知道兩者只是不用。對于女書,只有女人被允許知道。
Kana were known by both men and female. Kanji and the Chinese language were reserved to men, as politics and other topics. Women wrote in Japanese and only using kana. The tale of genji, probably the most important piece of Japanese literature, was written by a woman using only kana.
假名是男女都知道的。漢字和漢語是男人專用的,用于政治和其他話題。女人用日語寫作,只用假名。《源氏物語》,可能是最重要的日本文學(xué)作品,是一個女人只用假名寫的。
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Im pretty sure its based off seal scxt, stop spewing nonsense
我很確定它是基于篆書的,別再胡說八道了
? @courtly5982 You're spewing nonsense? Seal scxt is just a font style of Han characters, which doesn't contradict anything here
你在胡說八道?篆書只是漢字的一種字體風(fēng)格,這里沒有任何矛盾
@seanthesheep seal scxt is no "font stlye" the radicals of seal scxt look nothing like clerical scxt, furthermore this guy compared with hiragana which is based off of grass scxt
篆書不是“字體風(fēng)格”,篆書的部首和隸書完全不同,而且這個人把它和基于草書的平假名相比
@seanthesheep its even more nonsense that woman weren't allowed to use han characters, if woman weren't allowed then how did li qingzhao write her poems? How did wuzetian send her orders? Its a big bunch of western nonsense trying to portray han culture as barbaric
更荒謬的是說女人不允許使用漢字,如果女人不允許使用漢字,那李清照是怎么寫詩的?武則天是怎么下達(dá)命令的?這是一大堆西方的胡說八道,試圖把漢文化描繪成野蠻的
@courtly5982 you're being irradical here. seal scxt is from the qin dynasty(秦), while nushu is from qing(清) dynasty, 2000 years apart. sure, they may resemble the seal scxt, but it isn't from seal scxt. for wuzetian, she is from the tang dynasty, again not related to nushu.
nushu is a very regional thing, showing the han culture as diverse. even the Chinese government is protecting it. it is 非文化物質(zhì)遺產(chǎn)。
海納百川,有容乃大。
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回復(fù) @courtly5982 你過于極端了。篆書來自秦朝,而女書來自清朝,相距2000年。對,它們可能看著像篆書,但并非來自篆書。對于武則天,她來自唐朝,也與女書無關(guān)。女書是個非常有地方性的東西,顯示出漢文化的多樣性。中國政府都在保護(hù)它。它是非物質(zhì)文化遺產(chǎn)。我給你一個中國習(xí)語:海納百川,有容乃大。中國文化具有多樣性,而你是那個想讓它失去多樣性的人。
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@courtly5982 also, the original comment is comparing (類比) the two systems, meaning nushu and japnaese is PARALLEL to each other. the original comment did NOT say nushu originated from japanese. please improve your reading skills, 零分重做
另外,原評論是在比較(類比)這兩個系統(tǒng),意思是女書和日語是平行的。原評論并沒有說女書起源于日語。請?zhí)岣吣愕拈喿x能力,零分重做。
@oishibaking qing dynasty or manchu empire?
清朝還是滿洲帝國?
@oishibaking and let me give you a Chinese saying "自以為是"
讓我給你一個中國習(xí)語“自以為是”
@courtly5982 你反駁你對~世界之大無奇不有
你反駁你對~世界之大無奇不有
2 weeks ago (edited)
This is misinformation. Firstly, hiragana IS kanji, specifically kanji written in sousho scxt, which was prominently used for over a thousand years. And secondly, everyone used it, men and women. In fact, if you grab any shahon (handwritten copy of manuscxt) there is a 99% chance it will be written in kuzushiji, in other words, sousho. So unless women wrote 99% of books, this is a hoax.
這是誤傳。首先,平假名是漢字,具體來說是草書漢字,草書被廣泛使用了超過一千年。其次,男女都使用它。事實(shí)上,如果你拿任何一本手抄本,有99%的可能性是用崩し字寫的,也就是草書。所以除非女人寫了99%的書,否則這是一個騙局。
@Kiharu62
@jmiquelmb Tale of genji wasn't written by a woman, this has long been debunked.
《源氏物語》不是女人寫的,這早已被揭穿。
? @Kiharu62 your second point doesn't contradict what is being said? they only said women only knew kana, not that only women knew kana
你的第二點(diǎn)并不矛盾?他們只是說女人只知道假名,并不是說只有女人知道假名。
@__-nt2wh It does because both men and women used kanji, and consequently kana, which is merely a use case of kanji. This separation between kana and kanji is a modern concept that came with the meiji government. Until then everyone knew kana was just kanji being used for sounds, not unlike manyougana. Back then everyone used kuzushiji so every kanji looked like what hiragana looks like today.
這確實(shí)矛盾,因?yàn)槟信际褂脻h字,因此也使用假名,假名只是漢字的一個用例。假名和漢字之間的分離是明治政府帶來的現(xiàn)代概念。在此之前,大家都知道假名只是用于發(fā)音的漢字,不像萬葉假名。那時候大家都用草書,所以每個漢字看起來都像今天的平假名。
I was gonna say the same thing. ? I learned this when I was living in Japan.
我本來要說同樣的話。我在日本生活時學(xué)到了這個。
@Kiharu62 I've heard about Manyogana before, and I think your claims would be interesting reads. Therefore I would like your sources regarding the following four information:
1. Separation between kana and Kanji is a modern concept that came with Meiji government.
2. Hiragana is Kanji.
3. Everyone knew kana was just kanji being used for sounds.
4. Everyone used Kuzushiji so every kanji looked like what hiragana looks like today.
Because based on my understanding, prior to say Meiji era, the language of the Hans (i.e. Kanji) is not something taught to all members of the Japanese society, and that at that time, literacy among women were low. The development of Kana was something to help create the written form of the Japanese language and to make people more literate (as least among certain social classes), which further evolved when the foreigners came.
回復(fù) @Kiharu62 我之前聽說過萬葉假名,我認(rèn)為你的說法會是有趣的閱讀材料。所以我需要你提供以下幾點(diǎn)信息的來源:
1. 假名和漢字的分離是隨著明治政府的到來而出現(xiàn)的現(xiàn)代概念。
2. 平假名是漢字。
3. 每個人都知道假名只是用于發(fā)音的漢字。
4. 每個人都使用草書,所以每個漢字看起來都像今天的平假名。
因?yàn)楦鶕?jù)我的理解,在明治時代之前,漢字并不是教給日本社會所有成員的東西,那時女性的識字率很低。假名的發(fā)展是為了幫助創(chuàng)造日語的書面形式,使人們更有文化(至少在某些社會階層中),這在外國人到來時進(jìn)一步演變。
@courtly5982 Naming prominent females does not indicate that everyone was able to. For example, li qingzhao is born into a scholar family with her mother being a poet, and wuzetian is a ruler.
In addition, there are such thing as readers and transcribers (people who write down what you say).
But alas, I am barbaric and do not know cultures.
回復(fù) @courtly5982 命名杰出的女性并不意味著每個人都能做到。例如,李清照出生在一個學(xué)者家庭,她的母親是詩人,而武則天是統(tǒng)治者。
此外,還有讀者和抄寫員(記錄你所說的人)。
但唉,我是野蠻人,不懂文化。
回復(fù) @albinoasesino I think your questions stem from a limited exposure to Kobun (古文), as all of that is seen every day by middle school students as they read hundreds of years old documents in school. Your questions are very basic but I'll try to answer them and point you to a more digestible source at the end since you don't seem too keen on reading kobun directly, otherwise you'd already know the answers as none of this is controversial or esoteric in the slightest.
我認(rèn)為你的問題源于對古文的接觸有限,因?yàn)橹袑W(xué)生每天在學(xué)校閱讀幾百年前的文獻(xiàn)時都會看到這些。你的問題非常基礎(chǔ),但我會盡量回答,并在最后指引你到一個更易消化的來源,因?yàn)槟闼坪醪惶珶嶂杂谥苯娱喿x古文,否則你已經(jīng)知道答案了,因?yàn)檫@些都不是有爭議或深奧的。
1. During meiji government Kana (仮名) system, which freely used kanji for sound (by the way that's what kana means), was abolished and in place hiragana (平仮名) system, which only admits a single kanji to represent each sound, was created. Now each kana sound only has 1 representative kanji and with printing widely available, kaisho scxt (楷書) substituted sousho scxt (草書) scxt as the standard, with the exception of kana. Because of that, hiragana look nothing like kanji so regular people don't perceive them as the same anymore.
在明治政府期間,假名系統(tǒng)(自由使用漢字表示聲音,順便說一下,這就是“假名”的意思)被廢除,取而代之的是平假名系統(tǒng),每個聲音只允許一個漢字代表。現(xiàn)在每個假名聲音只有一個代表漢字,隨著印刷的廣泛使用,楷書取代了草書作為標(biāo)準(zhǔn),假名除外。因此,平假名看起來不像漢字,所以普通人不再認(rèn)為它們是一樣的。
2. Hiragana (平仮名) is a simplification of Kana (仮名) system, with the term hentaigana (変體仮名) being used to denote all kanji that should not be used anymore as kana because they fall outside the new standard of 1 kanji per sound (although you can still find these nonstandard kana in traditional culture, such as sushiya, festivals, etc).
平假名是假名系統(tǒng)的簡化,變體假名這個術(shù)語用于表示所有不再作為假名使用的漢字,因?yàn)樗鼈儾环厦總€聲音一個漢字的新標(biāo)準(zhǔn)(盡管你仍然可以在傳統(tǒng)文化中找到這些非標(biāo)準(zhǔn)假名,如壽司店、節(jié)日等)。
一千多年來,所有的書寫都是用草書完成的,所以假名(作為聲音的漢字)和漢字都是用同一種書寫方式。這就是為什么當(dāng)你學(xué)習(xí)閱讀草書以閱讀舊手稿時,區(qū)分一個漢字是否被用作假名的唯一方法是通過上下文、語法和習(xí)慣(有些漢字更可能被用作假名,而有些則從未被用作假名)。
我不確定你想讓我在這里說什么,只要拿任何一本明治時代之前的手抄本,你就會看到它們都是用草書寫的。這包括所有的書寫、漫畫、藝術(shù)等。你只在漢文中看到楷書,即來自唐、宋以及較少的明的中期漢文(很少來自金、元和清,因?yàn)樗鼈儽灰暈橐靶U人)。
Addressing your further commentary, I don't know if you're confusing hiragana with kana, but kana has been there for well over a thousand years, and its creation had nothing to do with a low literacy rate like you seem to think. Both because the reason kana was created was to better represent the Japanese language using a foreign scxt (kanji) but also because there was actually a high literacy rate in Japan before the meiji era. There were schools called terakoya (寺子屋) which taught students how to read and write from a very young age. Since heian era (794-1185) until the start of meiji era, there were also hundreds of thousands of books called ouraimono (往來物), which taught people how to read and write, knowledge about animals, seasons, poetry, weather, geography, history, farmacy, medicine, etc. early during the heian era, these were separated in 3 categories, namely warrior (武士), trader (商人) and farmer (農(nóng)民), so they were written in order to provide the respective category with useful knowledge. If even farmers from over 1000 years ago knew how to read can you really say there was a low literacy rate in Japan before the meiji era? To this day we still have preserved over 7000 different ouraimono. If you're curious all you need to do is access the national public library website and you can read from the comfort of your home.
針對你的進(jìn)一步評論,我不知道你是否把平假名和假名混淆了,但假名已經(jīng)存在了一千多年,它的創(chuàng)造與低識字率無關(guān),就像你似乎認(rèn)為的那樣。因?yàn)榧倜膭?chuàng)建是為了更好地用外來文字(漢字)表示日語,而且在明治時代之前日本的識字率實(shí)際上很高。有一種叫做寺子屋的學(xué)校,從很小的年齡就教學(xué)生如何讀寫。從平安時代(794-1185)到明治時代初期,還有成千上萬的書叫做往來物,教人們?nèi)绾巫x寫,關(guān)于動物、季節(jié)、詩歌、天氣、地理、歷史、藥學(xué)、醫(yī)學(xué)等的知識。在平安時代早期,這些書分為三類,即武士、商人和農(nóng)民,所以它們是為了提供各自類別的有用知識而寫的。如果一千多年前的農(nóng)民都知道如何閱讀,你真的能說在明治時代之前日本的識字率很低嗎?到今天我們?nèi)匀槐4媪顺^7000種不同的往來物。如果你感興趣,只需訪問國家公共圖書館網(wǎng)站,你可以在家里舒適地閱讀。
我不明白你所說的外國人提高日本識字率是什么意思。也許你把日本和韓國搞混了,你所描述的事情實(shí)際上發(fā)生在日本征服韓國時,當(dāng)時日本實(shí)施了韓文,而韓文是許多年前由世宗大王創(chuàng)造的,但沒有被以貴族為中心的韓國政府實(shí)施,韓國政府仍然以漢字為標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。
https://youtu.be/7nosHOjHt_E?si=IfhA_GiluVjPY3WN
The channel owner banned lixs so I had to insert an empty space in the youtube lix otherwise this comment would be dexed.
如果你有興趣,我會給你一個關(guān)于日語歷史的日本紀(jì)錄片(YouTube視頻)的鏈接。它簡要地解釋了你所問的問題,盡管是以更簡化的方式(也許太簡化了,特別是《源氏物語》部分),但我離題了。這是一個日本電視節(jié)目,所以即使沒有事先的知識,你也應(yīng)該很容易理解。它有西班牙語字幕,所以根據(jù)你的名字判斷,你應(yīng)該沒有問題。這里是鏈接:
頻道所有者禁止鏈接,所以我不得不在YouTube鏈接中插入一個空格,否則這條評論會被刪除。
回復(fù) Kiharu62 ?? Hiragana was invented by women, because they were forbidden to use kanji. That is why it was first called "onnade," or 女手 (or nǚ shǒu in mandarin).
平假名是由女性發(fā)明的,因?yàn)樗齻儽唤故褂脻h字。這就是為什么它最初被稱為“女手”。
正是因?yàn)榕允褂贸壓喕臐h字創(chuàng)造了自己的文字,今天的日語才有了音節(jié)文字。
哦,假名是基于漢字的?這也是。
回復(fù) Kiharu62 mmm no, it was written by Murasaki no Shikibu. But whatever.
嗯,不,是紫式部寫的。但無所謂。
回復(fù) Kiharu62 No... no you don't know what you're talking about. Kana is a syllabary used for sounds, not like Kanji which was used for meaning. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
不……不,你不知道你在說什么。假名是用于表示聲音的音節(jié)文字,不像漢字是用于表示意義的。請不要再讓自己難堪了。
回復(fù) albinoasesino Kana was born because woman took Kanji and wrote it in a super simplified manner, much like what is happening here.
假名的誕生是因?yàn)榕詫h字以超級簡化的方式書寫,就像這里發(fā)生的事情一樣。
有趣的是,韓文的發(fā)明也是為了讓人們能夠書寫,因?yàn)闈h字只教給精英。
回復(fù) Kiharu62 I will take awhile to look at your reply. For some reason, YT turned off notification to replies.
我會花點(diǎn)時間看你的回復(fù)。不知為何,YouTube關(guān)閉了回復(fù)通知。
不過,我現(xiàn)在會回復(fù)幾件事:
1. I have no access to 古文, nor can I say I would be able to interpret 古文. Sorry for being less than a middle schooler.
1. 我無法接觸到古文,也不能說我能解釋古文。抱歉,我連中學(xué)生都不如。
2. It would be interesting to learn whether say >=80% of the population in 794 knew how to read write. I'll go and take a look at 往來物 that are stored in nier when I have the time. Sounds interesting.
2. 如果794年有>=80%的人口會讀寫,那將會很有趣。我有時間會去看看存放在nier的往來物。聽起來很有趣。
3. 我不認(rèn)為我說過“外國人提高日本識字率”,但我會稍后重讀我說的話。目前我所說的主要來自于我的理解,即a) 早期的日本更多是口頭的,沒有書面文字,直到他們遇到中國,b) 為了應(yīng)對外國(西方)的聲音,不得不發(fā)展平假名/片假名以包括しゃ等。
4. No I'm not spanish haha. But well, will take a look at the video you are referring to.
4. 不,我不是西班牙人哈哈。不過,我會看看你提到的視頻。
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回復(fù) OsakaJoe01 I'm not embarrassing myself, I'm a Japanese speaker. In Japan, people study classical Japanese at school and university; the very basics of it is understanding that kana are kanji, if you can't do that then it's impossible to read manuscxts. And no, we don't know who wrote genji monogatari. That's a common issue with books over a thousand years old. Most had no signature (genji monogatari's case) and quite a lot of them were pseudepigraphic. The only clue that may point to Murasaki being the writter is her diary (紫式部日記), which if you'd seen you'd know there's kanji there too, so that defeats your argument about women being "forbidden" from using kanji.
我沒有讓自己難堪,我是日語使用者。在日本,人們在學(xué)校和大學(xué)學(xué)習(xí)古典日語;其基本內(nèi)容是理解假名是漢字,如果你不能做到這一點(diǎn),那么就不可能閱讀手稿。而且,不,我們不知道《源氏物語》是誰寫的。這是千年古書的常見問題。大多數(shù)沒有署名(《源氏物語》的情況)且很多是偽署的。唯一可能指向紫式部是作者的線索是她的日記(紫式部日記),如果你看過,你會知道那里也有漢字,所以這推翻了你關(guān)于女性被“禁止”使用漢字的論點(diǎn)。
I don't know where you got this information about women creating hiragana or that women were forbidden to use kanji but that's completely made up. It's called 女手 because during heian most women used it, it's not called that because they created it. Hiragana is just the natural continuation of sougana (草仮名), which is just manyougana (萬葉仮名) written in in kuzushiji. You shouldn't trust all the information you see online.
我不知道你從哪里得到的關(guān)于女性創(chuàng)造平假名或女性被禁止使用漢字的信息,但那完全是捏造的。它被稱為女手是因?yàn)樵谄桨矔r期大多數(shù)女性使用它,而不是因?yàn)樗齻儎?chuàng)造了它。平假名只是草假名的自然延續(xù),而草假名只是用崩字書寫的萬葉假名。你不應(yīng)該相信網(wǎng)上看到的所有信息。
What! I didn't know that! That's crazy!!!
什么!我不知道!太瘋狂了?。?!
? @jmiquelmb I knew that but the fact that it was written entirely in kanna blows my mind.!!!!!
我知道,但它完全用假名寫成的事實(shí)讓我震驚。!??!
When there’s a will there’s a way, this is so incredibly cool.
有志者事竟成,這太酷了。
why am I getting emotional
That's really a beautiful example of self-empowerment
為什么我會變得情緒化
這真是一個自我賦權(quán)的美麗例子
time and time again i am impressed by some commenters (who already have left their mark on multiple other videos from SCMP) and their dedication to just mock things covered by this channel
nushu is kind of cool though
一次又一次,我對一些評論者(他們已經(jīng)在南華早報(bào)的多個其他視頻上留下了印記)及其專注于嘲笑該頻道所涵蓋的內(nèi)容感到印象深刻
不過,女書還是挺酷的
1 個回復(fù)
Report them. People need to learn as well as adhere to netiquette.
舉報(bào)他們。人們需要學(xué)習(xí)并遵守網(wǎng)絡(luò)禮儀。
For thousands of years, women all around the world have been treated as sla'ves and property. Education is the first step towards liberation and independence. The women who created this scxt were powerful and had great perseverance.
幾千年來,世界各地的女性一直被當(dāng)作奴隸和財(cái)產(chǎn)對待。教育是走向解放和獨(dú)立的第一步。創(chuàng)造這種文字的女性是強(qiáng)大的,并且有著巨大的毅力。
1 個回復(fù)
It breaks my heart every time when I think of how women were treated in the past!!!
每次想到過去女性是如何被對待的,我的心都碎了?。?!
It's a scxt, not a language
這是一種文字,不是一種語言
7個回復(fù)
It's a secret code for discontent women, not a scxt.
這是不滿女性的秘密代碼,不是文字。
回復(fù) captives6479 it is a scxt,because it is use in the masses and seems to be culturally significant,if it’s not a scxt than any other scxt except the latin scxt is a code for the English language
它是一種文字,因?yàn)樗诖蟊娭惺褂貌⑶宜坪蹙哂形幕饬x,如果它不是一種文字,那么除了拉丁文字之外的任何其他文字都是英語的代碼
因?yàn)槲铱梢杂闷渌淖謥韺懹⒄Z
回復(fù) captives6479 besides,it even changed into a syllabary
此外,它甚至變成了音節(jié)文字
它似乎也自然演化了,相信我,文字確實(shí)會變化和演變
it's a written language.
這是一種書面語言。
回復(fù) speicaldark it's a writing system, a scxt developed for the language spoken in the region it was invented it
這是一種書寫系統(tǒng),一種為發(fā)明它的地區(qū)所講的語言開發(fā)的文字
回復(fù) PeoplecallmeLucifer That is actually a broad definition of a written language.
那實(shí)際上是書面語言的廣義定義。
回復(fù) speicaldark written language is a language that has a writing system adapted for its needs. I think that in this case we are talkign about the Hunan dialect which can be written both with Nushu and standard Chinese scxt
書面語言是一種有適應(yīng)其需求的書寫系統(tǒng)的語言。我認(rèn)為在這種情況下,我們談?wù)摰氖呛戏窖?,它可以用女書和?biāo)準(zhǔn)漢字書寫
所以女書是一種書寫系統(tǒng)。
有不止一個例子表明一種語言可以用多種書寫系統(tǒng)書寫
作為中國人幾十年了,還是第一次聽說有“女書”,專門女性的文字。(譯注:原文為中文)
9個回復(fù)
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I think that's the point
我認(rèn)為這就是重點(diǎn)
i heard of it before, and i'm not even Chinese. or i mean my grandfather was, but i did not grew up in china.
我以前聽說過,我甚至不是中國人?;蛘哒f我祖父是中國人,但我不是在中國長大的。
當(dāng)年很紅的電影“雪花扇“就是以女書為背景拍攝的。(譯注:原文為中文)
It’s a very niche scxt. I think it was predominantly used by an women of a ethnic minority in a fairly small area in the south.
這是一種非常小眾的文字。我認(rèn)為它主要是由南方一個相對較小地區(qū)的少數(shù)民族女性使用的。
Unless you are female and from a certain area in China you Wouldn't know about it.
除非你是女性并且來自中國的某個特定地區(qū),否則你不會知道它。
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本人從小就在國外,但我早就知道有“女書”這文字。你應(yīng)該是男生吧。(譯注:原文為中文)
回復(fù) stephanielim5544 Me too. I grew up overseas (left China as a child) and even I heard of Nushu many years ago. There was a movie called "Snow Flower and the Secret Fan" that uses Nushu in the plot. I think that might be how I heard of it.
我也是。我在海外長大(小時候離開了中國),多年前我就聽說過女書。有一部叫《雪花秘扇》的電影在劇情中使用了女書。我想這可能是我聽說它的方式。
I'm not Chinese but I have heard about it here in some videos.
我不是中國人,但我在一些視頻中聽說過它。
回復(fù) elvishassassin1 那你是湖南人,女書是湖南方言的表音文字,外地人沒聽過很正常,地方特色。(譯注:原文為中文)
It is a writing system. Not a language obviously.
這是一種書寫系統(tǒng)。顯然不是一種語言。
Oh I know about this one, I think there was a movie which the female protagonists, one of them played by Li Bingbing, communicated using this writing system.
哦,我知道這個。我記得有一部電影,女主角之一是李冰冰,她們用這種書寫系統(tǒng)交流。
5個回復(fù)
you mean Fan Bingbing
你是說范冰冰吧
回復(fù) stephanielim5544 No the Li Bingbing who played Ada Wong in Resident Evil.
不是,是李冰冰,她在《生化危機(jī)》中扮演艾達(dá)·王。
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回復(fù) mapletibits6372 ahhhh I see
啊,我明白了。
Snow Flower and the Secret Fan by Lisa See
《雪花秘扇》,作者是Lisa See。
Yes, that's where I first learned about this, from that book
是的,我第一次了解這個就是從那本書里。
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The characters of this language look really pretty as well, as if they carry that 'feminine energy'
這種文字的字符看起來真的很漂亮,仿佛帶有那種“女性能量”。
1個回復(fù)
Such a beautiful scxt.
如此美麗的文字。
Nushu is like the real version of movie SNOW FLOWER AND SECRET FAN. Cool.
女書就像電影《雪花秘扇》的真實(shí)版本。酷。
1個回復(fù)
Oh my goodness, I remember watching this movie when I was younger and have been trying my darnest trying to remember the name for years. I can’t believe I found it by reading your comment. THANK YOU.
天哪,我記得小時候看過這部電影,多年來一直努力回憶它的名字。沒想到通過讀你的評論找到了。謝謝你。
Women really had suffered a lot in hands of patriarchal societies for centuries.. and still do..
幾個世紀(jì)以來,女性在父權(quán)社會中確實(shí)受了很多苦……而且仍然在受苦。
26個回復(fù)
Oh really? Tell me more…
哦,真的嗎?告訴我更多……
clearly not anymore infact they torment man more nowadays
顯然現(xiàn)在不是了,事實(shí)上她們現(xiàn)在折磨男人更多。
Patriarchal societies are what work and it's not suffering I'm pretty happy actually
父權(quán)社會是有效的,這不是受苦,我其實(shí)很幸福。
man and woman are now equal, not sure which century are you stuck in.
男人和女人現(xiàn)在是平等的,不知道你卡在哪個世紀(jì)。
And now they wield more power. They can ruin men using just the system at their disposal.
現(xiàn)在她們掌握了更多的權(quán)力。她們可以僅僅利用手中的系統(tǒng)毀掉男人。
Very interesting to read that commenters below are unaware of many obvious examples of human suffering involving oppression of women around the world. They must have a very skewed picture of the world that is not borne out in statistics.
很有趣,看到下面的評論者們對世界各地涉及女性壓迫的許多明顯的人類苦難例子一無所知。他們對世界的看法一定非常偏頗,統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)據(jù)并不支持這種看法。
and are now depressed more than ever. Women made themselves miserable
現(xiàn)在她們比以往任何時候都更抑郁。女性讓自己變得痛苦。
You cannot judge the past using today's Western standards.
你不能用今天的西方標(biāo)準(zhǔn)來評判過去。
回復(fù) captives6479 Yes we can, because it is unethical to tolerate lower standards when a higher standard is now available.
是的,我們可以,因?yàn)楫?dāng)更高的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)已經(jīng)存在時,容忍較低的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)是不道德的。
It's a double edged sword, but the male side is bigger. Women now work full time and take care of aging parents, do 90% of the childcare, 70% of household chores. Men may complain that women have the choice of not working when men never do. However being a full time homemaker comes with a huge cost. Having no job history means the woman will become homeless and/or unable to have a living wage if they separate. This creates a situation for potential abuse. So women have to work and be the homemaker. Men do get verbally and physically abused, but people tend not to worry about men because they are physically stronger even when the women is the same size.
這是一把雙刃劍,但男性的一面更大。女性現(xiàn)在全職工作,還要照顧年邁的父母,承擔(dān)90%的育兒和70%的家務(wù)。男人可能會抱怨女人可以選擇不工作,而男人永遠(yuǎn)不能。然而,全職主婦的代價巨大。沒有工作經(jīng)歷意味著如果分開,女人將無家可歸和/或無法獲得生活工資。這就造成了潛在的虐待情況。所以女人必須工作并且做家庭主婦。男人確實(shí)會受到言語和身體上的虐待,但人們往往不擔(dān)心男人,因?yàn)榧词古撕湍腥艘粯訌?qiáng)壯,男人也更強(qiáng)壯。
Yeah like lsIamic countries, but you aint ready for that convo.
是的,就像伊斯蘭國家,但你還沒準(zhǔn)備好談這個話題。
回復(fù) anxiousduck But back then it was high standards to them.
但在當(dāng)時,這對他們來說是高標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。
? @cliptonic69 say that to women in Afghanistan, Iran
去對阿富汗和伊朗的女性說這些話吧。
回復(fù) cliptonic69 I say both gender torment each other these days
我說現(xiàn)在兩性都在折磨對方。
Lets see how this comment section will age
讓我們看看這個評論區(qū)會如何發(fā)展。
回復(fù) ulalaulala6232 There's no equality in family court.
在家庭法庭上沒有平等。
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You’re obxtively right but fools will disagree because they can’t see beyond their own lives.
你客觀上是對的,但愚蠢的人會不同意,因?yàn)樗麄兛床坏阶约荷钪獾臇|西。
回復(fù) GameFuMaster Men are offing themselves at much higher rates LOL
男人的自殺率高得多,哈哈。
回復(fù) sanneoi6323 Afghanistan?
阿富汗?
回復(fù) himalayansalt32 huh? I'm from China.
嗯?我來自中國。
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? @cliptonic69 bruh wutt where do u live!?? Man tell usss
兄弟,你住在哪里???告訴我們!
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? @cliptonic69 Bruh wutt where do you live!?? Man tell ussss
兄弟,你住在哪里?。扛嬖V我們!
? @kiowah231 that's the patriarchy backfiring a lil
那是父權(quán)制的反作用。
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? @extremepsyche3135 instead of complaining men could've already made child raising/nurturing a part of man's nature too, instead of complaining men could've already made child raising/nurturing a part of man's nature too
與其抱怨,男人本可以已經(jīng)讓撫養(yǎng)/培養(yǎng)孩子成為男人天性的一部分。
? @extremepsyche3135 like how u can be mad about how family courts are after convincing everyone it's a feminine thing and not doin the bare minimum to undo that
就像你對家庭法庭感到憤怒一樣,在說服所有人這是女性的事情之后,卻沒有做最基本的事情來改變這一點(diǎn)。
This comment really triggered the incel ipad boys who grew up on Andrew Tate manosphere culture and know nothing about human history lol
這條評論真的觸發(fā)了那些在Andrew Tate男性文化中長大的“非自愿獨(dú)身”平板男孩,他們對人類歷史一無所知,哈哈。
這只是文字 不是語言 他們說的話仍然一樣(譯注:原文為中文)
2個回復(fù)
應(yīng)該是翻譯的錯誤(譯注:原文為中文)
yes but "female only language" will get more clicks than "female only writing system"
It's silly but that's how media houses work
是的,但“女性專用語言”比“女性專用書寫系統(tǒng)”會獲得更多點(diǎn)擊。這很愚蠢,但媒體就是這樣運(yùn)作的。
Duolingo wants to know your location
Duolingo 想知道你的所在地。
This is SO Freaking cool. In a patriarchal society that shames you for being literally bearing male heirs, this is something I am so glad hasn't been lost to the generations/times. Once I am HSK level in my reading and writing for Simplified AND Traditional Chinese I really wanna try learning this one day
這太酷了。在一個因?yàn)槟闵四行岳^承人而羞辱你的父權(quán)社會中,這是一件我很高興沒有在代代相傳中失去的東西。一旦我在簡體和繁體中文的閱讀和寫作上達(dá)到HSK水平,我真的想有一天學(xué)習(xí)這個。
Thank you for this. I had no idea, but will look into this more deeply.
謝謝你。我之前不知道,但我會更深入地了解這個。
That's actually very cool.
那真的很酷。
Interesting, I did not know this was a thing.
有趣,我不知道有這種東西。
Based af, even if it's no longer necessary.
很有基礎(chǔ),即使它不再必要。
I over heard this growing up. I did not know. I thought they meant that in China Cantonese was spoken by men and Mandarin was spoken by woman.
我在成長過程中聽說過這個。我不知道。我以為他們的意思是在中國,男人說粵語,女人說普通話。
1個回復(fù)
I would love to learn this . Looks beautiful
我很想學(xué)這個??雌饋砗苊?。
This is absurd, you made a video about a scxt, a written language without a single word mentioning the spoken language that uses it, xiangnan Tuhua. It's a scxt derived from Chinese characters to write a Chinese language, so there are tons of one-to-one correspondences, but it's not for all Chinese languages, its phonetics just doesn't work everywhere. Many only care about the scxt but not the language, and that's arrogant.
這很荒謬,你做了一個關(guān)于一種文字的視頻,卻沒有提到使用這種文字的口語——湘南土話。這是一種從漢字衍生出來的書寫系統(tǒng),用來書寫一種漢語,所以有大量的一對一對應(yīng)關(guān)系,但它并不適用于所有漢語,它的語音并不適用于所有地方。很多人只關(guān)心文字而不關(guān)心語言,這很傲慢。
that's so amazing, now i want to learn it too
這太棒了,現(xiàn)在我也想學(xué)了
1個回復(fù)
Nushu, which literally means womens language, originated in western Hunan Province (湘西). It was created by women and used only by women. It's unique in China (maybe in the world?). Unfotunately, only a handful of people left can write and communicate in Nushu nowadays
女書,字面意思是“女性的語言”,起源于湖南省西部(湘西)。它是由女性創(chuàng)造并僅供女性使用的。在中國(也許在世界上)都是獨(dú)一無二的。不幸的是,現(xiàn)在只有少數(shù)人還能書寫和使用女書進(jìn)行交流。
Just finished a book by Lisa See about nushu. Such a hard life for them.
剛讀完Lisa See關(guān)于女書的書。她們的生活真是艱難。
So cool that they're trying to keep the language going....
她們努力保持這種語言的存在,真是太酷了……
3個回復(fù)
It's a reminder of how poorly women were treated in china..
這提醒了我們中國的女性曾經(jīng)受到多么不公平的待遇。
Mandarin is the most spoken native tongue on the planet. So there is no need to try to keep the language going. Its going pretty well already.
Language is what you speak. Writing system is what you write.
普通話是世界上使用最廣泛的母語。所以沒有必要努力保持這種語言的存在。它已經(jīng)發(fā)展得很好了。
語言是你說的,書寫系統(tǒng)是你寫的。
回復(fù) Alternatives_Universum well the ladies in this video think it's pretty important so take your beef up with them
視頻里的女士們認(rèn)為這很重要,所以你去跟她們理論吧。
Dope
酷斃了
Anybody here after reading the Stormlight Archive?
有人是看了《風(fēng)暴之光》系列小說后過來的嗎?
1個回復(fù)
I didnt come here specifically because of that, but yeah. I woneer if Brandon Sanderson was inspired by Nushu
我不是專門因?yàn)槟莻€來的,但對,我在想布蘭登·桑德森是否受到了女書的啟發(fā)。
I'm gonna learn this scxt to further push the patriarchy.
我要學(xué)這種文字來進(jìn)一步推動父權(quán)制。
3個回復(fù)
As a guy I'm gonna make sure to learn this scxt so you don't make a difference
作為一個男人,我一定要學(xué)這種文字,這樣你就不會有影響。
回復(fù) notpillow6759 lol, your learning something doesn’t erase another person. Sad for you though.
哈哈,你學(xué)點(diǎn)東西并不會抹去別人。不過對你來說真是悲哀。
回復(fù) oakmaiden2133 it does though it's supposed to be a female only language, and by a male learning it then exclusivity is lost.
確實(shí)如此,它本來是女性專用的語言,男性學(xué)了之后就失去了獨(dú)特性。
This is fascinating to hear about and I'm so glad that they did it.But hearing it's called the scxt of tears is so sad! I am so glad that it is preserved and being learned about and I hope that more people continue to learn about it and use it so it doesn't die out!!!
聽到這些真是太迷人了,我很高興她們做到了。但聽到它被稱為“淚水的文字”真是太悲傷了!我很高興它被保存下來并被學(xué)習(xí),我希望更多的人繼續(xù)了解它并使用它,這樣它就不會消失!
Remarkable, poignant, and wonderful. Thank you for this story.
非凡、感人、精彩。感謝這個故事。
0:18 Literacy, uh…finds a way
0:18 識字,呃……總能找到辦法
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very important to pass traditional ways less we forget, the tears and struggle's of the world.
傳承傳統(tǒng)方式非常重要,否則我們會忘記這個世界的淚水和掙扎。
Where can we find Xu's book?
我們在哪里可以找到徐的書?
Why are you putting western classical music for a traditional Chinese related documentary?
為什么在一個與中國傳統(tǒng)相關(guān)的紀(jì)錄片中使用西方古典音樂?
2個回復(fù)
Why not?
為什么不呢?
It's funny. If a Western TV production always used traditional Chinese music when discussing something China-related, they might get the opposite complaints: "Why do you always use stereotypical music when discussing Asian people? You wouldn't use that music when talking about a white or black person."
Just goes to show... some people will always *search for a reason* to be offended.
這很有趣。如果一個西方電視制作在討論與中國有關(guān)的事情時總是使用傳統(tǒng)的中國音樂,他們可能會得到相反的投訴:“為什么在討論亞洲人時總是使用刻板印象的音樂?你不會在談?wù)摪兹嘶蚝谌藭r使用那種音樂?!?br /> 這只是表明……有些人總是會尋找理由來感到被冒犯。
Boys language: B r o! D u d e!
男孩的語言:兄弟!老兄!
I dont think its as beautiful as regular characters. Its beautiful in itself but regular characters are more beautiful to me.
我不認(rèn)為它像普通漢字那樣美。它本身很美,但普通漢字對我來說更美。
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how is it possible these women are double exxtraordinary, its outrageous unfair how can you be a grandmastr and not be a wahmen
這些女性怎么可能如此非凡,這太不公平了,怎么能成為大師而不是女性。
Both interesting and sad. :<
既有趣又悲傷。:<
Fascinating…!!
迷人……??!
this is sooooo cool
這太酷了
一次都么有聽過‘女書’(譯注:原文為中文)
Maybe you can cross check this with the Voynich manuscxt, see if it works for deciphering the language.
也許你可以把這個和伏尼契手稿交叉檢查一下,看看是否有助于破譯這種語言。
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WoW how clever and resilient we are .
哇,我們是多么聰明和有韌性。
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I almost wrote a term paper on this in university but my teacher told me my idea was unfeasible... It's a shame, I probably would have been able to say something really cool about it in a youtube comment if I had done some research on it :^)
我差點(diǎn)在大學(xué)寫了一篇關(guān)于這個的學(xué)期論文,但我的老師告訴我我的想法不可行……真遺憾,如果我做了一些研究,我可能會在YouTube評論中說一些很酷的話 :^)
When you thought mandarin was tough to learn... here get a taste of my nushu
當(dāng)你覺得普通話難學(xué)時……來嘗嘗我的女書吧
Afghanistan needs to see this
阿富汗需要看看這個
Reading and writing… more like scheming and dying. We need to go back to growing our own food stat. Forget ‘formal education’.
讀書寫字……更像是策劃和死亡。我們需要回到自己種植食物的狀態(tài)。忘掉“正規(guī)教育”。
I can't focus on two different types of mental tasks at the same time here it's music and the other is non-muaic.
我不能同時專注于兩種不同類型的心理任務(wù),這里是音樂,另一個是非音樂。
A western violin as background music?
用西方的小提琴作為背景音樂?
I think like this Hiragana has appeared.
我覺得這就像平假名的出現(xiàn)。
That's true. Both hiragana and nvshu are just simplified handwriting of Chinese characters.
確實(shí)如此。平假名和女書都是簡化的漢字書寫形式。
回復(fù) heian17
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而且它們都是為女性設(shè)計(jì)的。
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Lots of small pp energy in the comment section.
評論區(qū)里有很多小氣的能量。
Not very secret anymore.
現(xiàn)在不再是秘密了。
Oh allnthe sheng nu gonna learn that scxt now.
哦,現(xiàn)在所有的剩女都會去學(xué)這種文字了。
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It's a secret code for discontent women, not a language.
這是一種不滿女性的秘密代碼,不是一種語言。
No wonder I can't understand my wife. She's using the secret female language.
難怪我聽不懂我老婆的話。她在用秘密的女性語言。
Both of my grandma's went to school to learn to read and write their parents didn't follow this trandation it wasn't very common for someone of their generation to go to school.
我的兩個祖母都上過學(xué),學(xué)會了讀寫。她們的父母沒有遵循這個傳統(tǒng),在她們那一代人中上學(xué)并不常見。
In US they called it feminist.
在美國,他們稱之為女權(quán)主義。
beautiful
美麗
Sounds similar to the story of hiragana.
聽起來像是平假名的故事。
Some Thailand does bad so they make Thailand people don't like China now.
Orn Lee, Orn boonsiri
有些泰國人做得不好,所以現(xiàn)在讓泰國人不喜歡中國。
@Amen7801
amazing
驚人
What happens if a man learns how to read the scxt?
如果一個男人學(xué)會了這種文字會怎樣?
Greetings. Fantastic, I just hope that feminism in Asia does not become what a sector of Western feminism has become: radical and meaningless.
問候。太棒了,我只希望亞洲的女權(quán)主義不要變成西方某些女權(quán)主義那樣:激進(jìn)且毫無意義。
文字本身沒啥毛病
但有人要拿這玩意搞男女對立來打拳那是真的純純初生
(譯注:原文為中文)
女書??
(譯注:原文為中文)
對啊
(譯注:原文為中文)
Lol, the secret well kept that no one knows.
哈哈,這個秘密保守得很好,沒人知道。
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Your gf standing next to me.
你女朋友站在我旁邊。
回復(fù) darth.severuss I hv no gf.
我沒有女朋友。
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回復(fù) HkChinese888 how sad.
真可憐。
Thank you for the comment, go collect 2 rupees.
謝謝你的評論,去收集2盧比吧。
回復(fù) Devildemon74
dllm(譯注:知名廣東罵人話),我們用的是元,達(dá)利特。(譯注:達(dá)利特即種姓中的“不可接觸者”)
回復(fù) HkChinese888 Thank you for the comment, go collect 2 rupees.
謝謝你的評論,去收集2盧比吧。
回復(fù) Devildemon74
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dllm,再說一次,我們用的是元,庫馬爾。(譯注:庫馬爾是南亞常見姓氏)
回復(fù) darth.severuss is your mum?
是你媽嗎?
回復(fù) darth.severuss
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你媽(譯注:該選手連發(fā)三條)
回復(fù) HkChinese888 your mama.
你媽