日本半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)為何失敗？
Why Japan's Semiconductor Industry Failed
譯文簡介
日本曾經(jīng)是世界上最大的半導(dǎo)體制造國之一。然而，僅僅幾年后，它就被鄰國超越了。
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日本半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)為何失?。?br />
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Japan was once one of the world's largest semiconductor manufacturing countries. However, in just a few years, it would be surpassed by its neighbors.
日本曾經(jīng)是世界上最大的半導(dǎo)體制造國之一。然而，僅僅幾年后，它就被鄰國超越了。
Why Japan's Semiconductor Industry Failed：US won’t allow Japan to dominate semiconductor industry.
為什么日本的半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)失敗了：美國不允許日本主導(dǎo)半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)。
Thirty years ago, Toshiba exported precision instruments to SOVIET . The United States has imposed the following penalties on Toshiba Group
1: The Japanese Police Department was ordered to arrest Erhe Lin, President of Toshiba Machinery Foundry, and Hiroshima Tanamura, President of Machine Tool Business, and sentenced to 10 years'imprisonment.
2: Closing Toshiba's factory in the United States
3: A 100% tariff on Toshiba products sold to the United States
4: As an alternative punishment to the previous one, Toshiba's exports to the United States were banned for five years.
5: A huge fine of 1 trillion yen was imposed on Toshiba, equivalent to $16 billion today.
In order to calm the anger of the United States, Japan has imposed severe penalties on Toshiba Group:
First, Japan's semiconductor industry will unconditionally share technology with American companies.
Second, Toshiba spent 100 million yen to publish a full-page apology advertisement in all major newspapers in the United States.
Thirdly, Japan Semiconductor Association invested 9 million US dollars to launch various relations lobbying in the US Congress, and this lobbying has become the most costly lobbying war in history.
Fourthly, the chairman and general manager of Toshiba Group resigned.
Fifthly, by an administrative order issued by the Ministry of Communications, Toshiba is prohibited from exporting any products to 14 countries for a period of one year.
The United States is the master of Japan, Japan can only apologize, which has led to Toshiba gradually losing its past glory.
Toshiba was the hope of Japan's science and technology industry, and also the hope and pillar of Japan's manufacturing. After suffering a heavy blow from the United States, Toshiba went downhill thoroughly.
The U.S. attacked Toshiba not because it sold equipment to the Soviet unx, but because it affected U.S. interests. The United States believes that the Japanese semiconductor industry represented by Toshiba Group seriously threatens the economic interests of the United States, while the Japanese high-end manufacturing plan threatens the United States and challenges the technological hegemony of the United States.
Looking back more than 30 years ago, the experience of Toshiba, Japan, and looking at what the United States is doing today, there are indeed many similarities.
The United States does not allow its high-end manufacturing industry to be challenged at all, nor does it allow its technological hegemony to be challenged. The United States hopes that other countries will all be American workers and will never allow other countries to become shareholders of American interests.
三十年前，東芝曾向蘇聯(lián)出口精密儀器，美國對東芝集團(tuán)實施了以下懲罰：
1: 日本警察部門被命令逮捕東芝機械鑄造廠總裁Erhe Lin和機床業(yè)務(wù)總裁Hiroshima Tanamura并判處10年監(jiān)禁。
2: 關(guān)閉東芝在美國的工廠。
3: 對銷往美國的東芝產(chǎn)品征收100%的關(guān)稅。
4: 作為前一項懲罰的替代，東芝對美國的出口被禁止五年。
5: 對東芝處以1萬億日元的巨額罰款，相當(dāng)于今天的160億美元。
為了平息美國的憤怒，日本對東芝集團(tuán)實施了嚴(yán)厲的懲罰：
首先，日本的半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)將無條件與美國公司分享技術(shù)。
其次，東芝花費1億日元在美國各大報紙上刊登整版道歉廣告。
第三，日本半導(dǎo)體協(xié)會投資900萬美元在美國國會發(fā)起各種關(guān)系游說，這次游說成為歷史上最昂貴的游說戰(zhàn)。
第四，東芝集團(tuán)的董事長和總經(jīng)理辭職。
第五，通過通信部發(fā)布的行政命令，東芝被禁止向14個國家出口任何產(chǎn)品，為期一年。
美國是日本的主人，日本只能道歉，這導(dǎo)致東芝逐漸失去了過去的輝煌。
東芝曾是日本科技產(chǎn)業(yè)的希望，也是日本制造業(yè)的希望和支柱。在遭受美國的沉重打擊后，東芝徹底走了下坡路。
美國攻擊東芝并不是因為它向蘇聯(lián)出售設(shè)備，而是因為它影響了美國的利益。美國認(rèn)為以東芝集團(tuán)為代表的日本半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)嚴(yán)重威脅了美國的經(jīng)濟利益，而日本的高端制造計劃威脅了美國并挑戰(zhàn)了美國的技術(shù)霸權(quán)。
回顧30多年前東芝和日本的經(jīng)歷，再看美國今天的所作所為，確實存在許多相似之處。
美國絕不允許其高端制造業(yè)受到挑戰(zhàn)，也不允許其技術(shù)霸權(quán)受到挑戰(zhàn)。美國希望其他國家都成為美國的工人，絕不允許其他國家成為美國利益的股東。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
So basically just what we are seeing with Chinese car industry.
It's free trade when it suits the US, but when you get too big, free trade no longer exists
所以基本上就是我們今天在中國汽車行業(yè)看到的情況。
當(dāng)對美國有利時，就是自由貿(mào)易，但當(dāng)你變得太大時，自由貿(mào)易就不再存在。
Because of the usa sanctions, because they had a huge potential, that's what china doesn't want from depending on the us/taiwan chips by building their own chip.
因為美國的制裁，因為他們有巨大的潛力，這就是中國不想依賴美國/臺灣（地區(qū)）芯片，而是自己制造芯片的原因。
What’s happening now to China is similar to what what was happening to Japan at the time.
現(xiàn)在中國發(fā)生的事情與當(dāng)時日本發(fā)生的事情類似。
You fail to understand that photo reisin used for chip production is solely made in Japan. No one country can manufacture a full working chip on its own
你未能理解用于芯片生產(chǎn)的光刻膠僅在日本制造，沒有一個國家可以獨自制造一個完整的芯片。
Japan was leading the microchip race in the 1970s before US sanctioned Japan with unfair trade agreements to limit their High Tech products and forcing Japan to build factories in US while charging hefty costs, Toshiba the leader in microchip manufacturing was targeted by US and it's General manager was arrested by to force Tech transfer. Same thing also happened to France in Energy sector. US is now trying to Do the same to China But failed as Chinese government step in and protected local companies which both Japan and the French government cowarded.
日本在20世紀(jì)70年代領(lǐng)導(dǎo)了微芯片競賽，直到美國通過不公平的貿(mào)易協(xié)議制裁日本，限制其高科技產(chǎn)品并迫使日本在美國建廠，同時收取高昂的費用。東芝作為微芯片制造的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，成了美國的目標(biāo)，其總經(jīng)理被捕以迫使技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓。同樣的事情也發(fā)生在法國的能源領(lǐng)域。美國現(xiàn)在試圖對中國做同樣的事情，但失敗了，因為中國政府介入并保護(hù)了本地公司，而日本和法國政府則退縮了。
I remember that the after the "Plaza Accord" President Reagan forced Prime minister Nakasone to accept few things to let Japan avoid the trade war against US. One of them was "the semiconductor agreement." As the result, Japan cannot export chips to US from Japan. Therefore, all semiconductor industry in Japan were shifted their technology to surrounding country like Taiwan, South Korea and China. Since their production technology is still highly relay on the supply from Japan.
Like ultra high quality "Fluoropolyimide", "photoresist" and "hydrogen fluoride" are nobody else can mass produce, except Japanese inland factories. Therefore, Japanese semiconductor manufacturing industries still making tons of money from Taiwan, Korea and China.
我記得，在“廣場協(xié)議”之后，里根總統(tǒng)曾強迫中曾根首相接受一些東西以使日本避免與美國的貿(mào)易戰(zhàn)，其中之一就是“半導(dǎo)體協(xié)議”。結(jié)果，日本不能從日本向美國出口芯片。因此，日本所有的半導(dǎo)體產(chǎn)業(yè)都將技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)移到了臺灣（地區(qū)）、韓國和中國等周邊國家（地區(qū)），因為他們的生產(chǎn)技術(shù)仍然高度依賴日本的供應(yīng)。
像超高質(zhì)量的“氟聚酰亞胺”、“光刻膠”和“氟化氫”，除了日本的內(nèi)陸工廠外，其他人都無法大規(guī)模生產(chǎn)。 因此，日本半導(dǎo)體制造業(yè)仍在從臺灣（地區(qū)）、韓國和中國大陸賺取大量利潤。
Japan lost the war to America and is still under their rule.
Of course there were good things, but they were never allowed to surpass America.
日本輸?shù)袅藢γ绹膽?zhàn)爭，至今仍處于美國的統(tǒng)治之下。
這當(dāng)然也有好的方面，但他們從未被允許超越美國。
Most semiconductors manufactured in Asia rely on Japanese semiconductor equipment, technology, and materials. In fact, companies like TSMC and Samsung wouldn’t exist without Japan’s contributions.
亞洲制造的大多數(shù)半導(dǎo)體都依賴于日本的半導(dǎo)體設(shè)備、技術(shù)和材料。事實上，如果沒有日本的貢獻(xiàn)，像臺積電和三星這樣的公司就不會存在。
As a young hobbyist, I attempted to get into Renesas MCUs and attended a "training course". Their tools were subpar to Freescale, more expensive and trainers had a bit of an uptight attitude. Then Arduino and ARM came, kicking everyone's ass.
作為一個年輕的愛好者，我曾嘗試學(xué)習(xí)瑞薩微控制器并參加了一個“培訓(xùn)課程”。他們的工具不如飛思卡爾，價格更貴，培訓(xùn)師的態(tài)度也有些拘謹(jǐn)。然后Arduino和ARM出現(xiàn)了，徹底改變了局面。
The introduction requires a correction:
The Marshall plan was the US aid to Europe after WWII.
The US aid to Japan (and the rest of Asia) was separate from the Marshall Plan.
引言需要更正：
馬歇爾計劃是美國在二戰(zhàn)后對歐洲的援助。
美國對日本（以及亞洲其他地區(qū)）的援助與馬歇爾計劃是分開的。
It really depends on what kind of chips we are talking about. There some of them where japan still holds the keys. It is not always about US. In some of the areas Japanese companies didn’t put an effort into R&D in that field.
這實際上取決于我們談?wù)摰氖悄姆N芯片。在某些領(lǐng)域，日本仍然掌握著關(guān)鍵環(huán)節(jié)，這并不總是與美國有關(guān)。而在某些領(lǐng)域，日本公司并沒有在該領(lǐng)域的研發(fā)上投入太多精力。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
The G7 meet regularly to devide world's manufacturing sectors.
In one of this meetings Japan made a deal which included the phasing out of its chip industry.
七國集團(tuán)會定期開會以劃分全球制造業(yè)領(lǐng)域。
在其中一次會議上，日本達(dá)成了一項協(xié)議，其中包括逐步淘汰其芯片產(chǎn)業(yè)。
Its crazy how America is using the same accusations about China. So the issue isnt china or japan but its America being a cry baby cause it cant compete
令人瘋狂的是美國對中國使用了同樣的指控。所以問題不在于中國或日本，而在于美國因為無法競爭而表現(xiàn)得像個哭鬧的孩子。
US was not specifically pinpointed Japan, it has pinpointed any country that comes close to challenge his supremecy. This is human nature, and thats why human never stop fighting each others.
美國并沒有特別針對日本，它針對的是所有接近挑戰(zhàn)其霸權(quán)的國家。這是人類的天性，這也是為什么人類永遠(yuǎn)不會停止互相爭斗。
Japan should rise up again. I think one of their problem is lack of young manpower and they're stuck with old people running everything. With todays standards, old ways doesn't always equals good. Most of the time we need to start from the ground up to make something new.
日本應(yīng)該再次崛起。我認(rèn)為他們的問題之一是缺乏年輕勞動力，而且他們被老年人掌控了一切。按照今天的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，舊的方式并不總是好的。大多數(shù)時候，我們需要從頭開始創(chuàng)造新事物。
CMOS technology transfer to US also one of the reason Japan's set back. US developed further CMOS technology and was helpful for its processor development. This was eventually captured all the chip market in the world. Japan did not put much efforts on designing CPU for computer and also its software.
CMOS技術(shù)向美國的轉(zhuǎn)移也是日本受挫的原因之一。美國進(jìn)一步發(fā)展了CMOS技術(shù)，并對其處理器開發(fā)有幫助，這最終占據(jù)了全球芯片市場。日本在計算機CPU設(shè)計及其軟件方面并沒有投入太多精力。
I always use NEC desktop PC from Japan because it is cheap and High Quality and it last long even when i am using in a welding shop where electricity is connected to a welding machine running everyday. HP Desktop PC did not last long even though it is more faster and have a bigger power source connected to AVR and UPS. Only NEC has the especial Technology device for Current filter in the power Supply.
我一直使用日本NEC的臺式電腦，因為它價格便宜、質(zhì)量高，即使在我每天連接焊接機的焊接車間使用，它也能持久耐用?；萜张_式電腦雖然速度更快，并且連接了AVR和UPS的更大電源，但使用壽命不長。只有NEC在電源中配備了特殊的電流過濾技術(shù)設(shè)備。
Japan and South Korea produce low-tech, mass-produced storage semiconductors, while Taiwan produces customized logic semiconductors, which are entirely different semiconductors from memory.
After Japan withdrew from memory production, South Korea took over. This has nothing to do with Taiwan.
Japan is a big country in storage semiconductors and does not produce logic semiconductors.
After Intel lost memory chips to Japan, it switched to producing CPU logic semiconductors, making Intel the dominant player.
日本和韓國生產(chǎn)低技術(shù)、大規(guī)模生產(chǎn)的存儲半導(dǎo)體，而臺灣（地區(qū)）生產(chǎn)定制的邏輯半導(dǎo)體，這與存儲半導(dǎo)體完全不同。
日本退出存儲生產(chǎn)后，韓國接手了，這與臺灣（地區(qū)）無關(guān)。
日本是存儲半導(dǎo)體的大國，但不生產(chǎn)邏輯半導(dǎo)體。
英特爾在存儲芯片上輸給日本后，轉(zhuǎn)而生產(chǎn)CPU邏輯半導(dǎo)體，這使英特爾成為了主導(dǎo)者。
TSMC is not a "fabless" company. Quite the opposite. TSMC is a supplier for "fabless" companies. "Fabless" means that a company altough designs chips, does not produce them because it has no "fab" (the name given to semiconductor manufacturing facilities)
臺積電不是“無晶圓廠”公司。恰恰相反，臺積電是“無晶圓廠”公司的供應(yīng)商?！盁o晶圓廠”意味著公司雖然設(shè)計芯片，但不生產(chǎn)芯片，因為它沒有“晶圓廠”（半導(dǎo)體制造設(shè)施的稱呼）。
Did you know that the machines used to make F1 racing engines are all made in Japan, and this is because the quality and precision is beyond perfect. Know this: any product no matter what it is, with the Made in Japan logo is always very high quality!
你知道制造F1賽車發(fā)動機的機器都是日本制造的嗎？這是因為它們的質(zhì)量和精度無可挑剔。要知道：任何帶有“日本制造”標(biāo)志的產(chǎn)品，無論是什么，質(zhì)量都非常高！
Hundreds years ago, China already trade with South East Asia.
But only trade, even China is powerful.
When European came, they colonies right away.
幾百年前，中國已經(jīng)與東南亞進(jìn)行貿(mào)易。
但僅僅是貿(mào)易，即使中國很強大。
當(dāng)歐洲人到來時，他們立即進(jìn)行了殖民。
The yen is currently very weak, but until recently it was very strong, so it was impossible for Japan to export finished semiconductors due to price competition. Furthermore, Japan made a promise with the US government to keep its trade surplus with the US below $50 billion a year, so the Ministry of International Trade and Industry at the time came up with a method of exporting manufacturing equipment, core parts and core materials to South Korea and Taiwan, and having South Korean, Taiwanese and Chinese companies manufacture semiconductors and electrical appliances, which are then exported to the US. As explained in this video, Japan and the US are world leaders in the world of semiconductor manufacturing equipment, core materials and core parts. The contents of the semiconductor manufacturing equipment of ASML, a Dutch semiconductor equipment manufacturer, are also mostly supplied by Japanese and American manufacturers.
日元目前非常疲軟，但直到最近它一直非常強勁，因此由于價格競爭，日本無法出口成品半導(dǎo)體。此外，日本與美國政府達(dá)成協(xié)議，將與美國每年的貿(mào)易順差保持在500億美元以下，因此當(dāng)時的國際貿(mào)易和工業(yè)部提出了一種方法，向韓國和臺灣（地區(qū)）出口制造設(shè)備、核心部件和核心材料，并由韓國、臺灣（地區(qū)）和中國公司制造半導(dǎo)體和電器，然后出口到美國。正如視頻中所解釋的，日本和美國在半導(dǎo)體制造設(shè)備、核心材料和核心部件領(lǐng)域處于世界領(lǐng)先地位。荷蘭半導(dǎo)體設(shè)備制造商ASML的半導(dǎo)體制造設(shè)備內(nèi)容也主要由日本和美國制造商供應(yīng)。
Friedship with USA will give you a lot of money but you will never get their technology. The Russians atleast give critical technologies to their allies like nucler reactor, rocket technology, jet engine and ship building tech. Better getting that from uncle sam
與美國建立友誼會給你帶來很多錢，但你永遠(yuǎn)不會得到他們的技術(shù)。俄羅斯至少會向盟友提供關(guān)鍵技術(shù)，如核反應(yīng)堆、火箭技術(shù)、噴氣發(fā)動機和造船技術(shù)。這從美國那里得到這些更好。
Look, if other countries want to succeed in semiconductors, they need to fund R&D. Most of the chip companies overseas are beholden to the US gov because all the tech were pioneered and patented in the USA. Risk in R&D is encouraged in America.
聽著，如果其他國家想在半導(dǎo)體領(lǐng)域取得成功，他們需要資助研發(fā)。大多數(shù)海外芯片公司都受制于美國政府，因為所有技術(shù)都是在美國首創(chuàng)并獲得專利的。在美國，研發(fā)中的風(fēng)險是受到鼓勵的。
While companies specializing in chip design and manufacturing were created in the U.S. and Taiwan, it was the semiconductor divisions of giant electronics companies that were making chips in Japan. Toshiba, in particular, found itself in the strange situation of doing both nuclear power plants and chip development, two completely different areas of the development cycle. As a result, the company was unable to adapt to the fast-changing chip market and declined.
雖然專門從事芯片設(shè)計和制造的公司在美國和臺灣（地區(qū)）成立，但在日本制造芯片的是大型電子公司的半導(dǎo)體部門。尤其是東芝，它發(fā)現(xiàn)自己處于同時進(jìn)行核電站和芯片開發(fā)的奇怪境地，這是兩個完全不同的開發(fā)周期領(lǐng)域。結(jié)果，該公司無法適應(yīng)快速變化的芯片市場并衰落。
I really can't believe Japan avoided their economic collapse with a 260% debt to GDP ratio. Many complain in the US that a national debt heading towards 100% is really unsustainable. I saw many videos saying that Japan can avoid their economic collapse with their ridiculous debt. Well... If my debt to income ratio is around 300%, it would end my marriage to my wife. It is really unsustainable.
我真的無法相信日本以260%的債務(wù)與GDP比率避免了經(jīng)濟崩潰。許多人在美國抱怨，國家債務(wù)接近100%是不可持續(xù)的。我看到許多視頻說日本可以通過其荒謬的債務(wù)避免經(jīng)濟崩潰。嗯……如果我的債務(wù)與收入比率約為300%，那將結(jié)束我與妻子的婚姻，因為這真的不可持續(xù)。
Anyone observant who has lived in Japan or has worked for a company trying to break into Japan knows how bent they are, even now they make it very difficult for foreign companies to operate here.
任何在日本生活過或為試圖進(jìn)入日本市場的公司工作過的觀察者都知道他們有多固執(zhí)，即使現(xiàn)在他們也讓外國公司在這里運營變得非常困難。
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One of the reasons Japan came to dominate DRAM production was because the US companies that did it in the 1970s wanted to focus on higher margin parts like CPUs. Intel was once a major DRAM producer but gave it up due to the low margins. It suited the purposes of companies like Intel to let existing and rising Asian producers have the market for those products. They didn't particularly care if a foreign power monopolized vital portions of a modern computer so long as the lion's share of the profits were going to Intel. The US government didn't see it that way.
日本主導(dǎo)DRAM生產(chǎn)的原因之一是20世紀(jì)70年代從事這一行業(yè)的美國公司希望專注于像CPU這樣的高利潤部件。英特爾曾經(jīng)是主要的DRAM生產(chǎn)商，但由于利潤率低而放棄了。對于像英特爾這樣的公司來說，讓現(xiàn)有的和崛起的亞洲生產(chǎn)商擁有這些產(chǎn)品的市場是合適的。他們并不特別關(guān)心外國勢力是否壟斷了現(xiàn)代計算機的關(guān)鍵部分，只要大部分利潤歸英特爾所有。而美國政府并不這么看。
Living and breathing in Japan i m here to gv u some more info
The lost decades he didnt elaborate in the video starts with Japan hving a bubble economy, but where did the bubble came from it came from Japan currency being boosted twice its value in less than 5 years thus makes the economy goes crazy ppl at that time all says investing overseas is like 50%off and it all starts with a Plaza covenant, what plaza u will wonder, of course is the New York Plaza Hotel.
USA kills the semiconductor market of Japan and kills the economy at the same time, ppl born beyond that era never saw the country being good and thats one of the reasons y Japanese r the most unhappy ppl on earth.
我在日本生活并呼吸，我在這里給你提供更多信息。
視頻中沒有詳細(xì)說明的“失去的幾十年”始于日本的泡沫經(jīng)濟，但泡沫從何而來？它來自于日元在不到五年內(nèi)升值兩倍，從而使經(jīng)濟變得瘋狂。當(dāng)時人們都說海外投資就像打五折，這一切都始于廣場協(xié)議，你可能會問是什么廣場，當(dāng)然是紐約的廣場酒店。
美國扼殺了日本的半導(dǎo)體市場，同時也扼殺了其經(jīng)濟，那個時代之后出生的人從未見過國家好過，這也是為什么日本人是地球上最不快樂的人之一。
The fabless model has proved to be disastrous during COVID, semiconductor companies do better when they own control of their own fabs. Also, NEC / Hitachi still exists as Renesas. Renesas is still around and strong today.
無晶圓廠模式在疫情期間被證明是災(zāi)難性的，半導(dǎo)體公司在擁有自己的晶圓廠控制權(quán)時表現(xiàn)更好。此外，NEC/日立仍然以瑞薩的形式存在，瑞薩今天仍然存在并且很強大。
Problem is, when in 1980 they reached the top - in terms of memories and commercial ICs, they begun competing with the US. This is what doomed them later on, when they couldn't advance the technology all by themselves. The Japanese should have kept a cooperative and collaborative approach with the US since the beginning.
問題是當(dāng)他們在1980年達(dá)到頂峰時——在存儲器和商用集成電路方面，他們開始與美國競爭。這就是他們后來注定失敗的原因，他們無法獨自推進(jìn)技術(shù)。日本人從一開始就應(yīng)該與美國保持合作和協(xié)作的態(tài)度。
I used to meet with the CFO of Elpida back in the early to mid 10's on the regular. I almost invested in that company.. but didn't after he told me his own couldn't understand why other Japanese companies were selling all their IP to overseas investors. It was a death trap.
Elpida stayed true to its roots... and they got crushed for it. Nikon almost suffered the same fate.
我曾在2010年代初期到中期定期與爾必達(dá)的CFO會面。我差點投資了那家公司……但在他告訴我他自己也無法理解為什么其他日本公司會將其所有知識產(chǎn)權(quán)出售給海外投資者后，我沒有投資。這是一個死亡陷阱。
爾必達(dá)堅持其原創(chuàng)……他們因此被壓垮了，尼康幾乎遭受了同樣的命運。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處