中國人自稱是最古老的文明,但在語言形成的時期他們甚至還不存在。中國人只存在了兩千年。他們是如何維持這么久的呢?
Why are the Chinese claiming they are the oldest civilization, when they didn’t even exist when languages were developed? The Chinese lasted only 2,000 years. How did they maintain that long?
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友:我不得不說,這個問題透露出一定的無知和偏見,似乎又是一個針對中國的引導(dǎo)性問題。在人類語言剛剛出現(xiàn)的早期,人類的生活狀況如何?什么樣的考古證據(jù)可以表明文明的存在,而不僅僅是一個短暫的人類群體?根據(jù)學(xué)術(shù)界的共識,中國究竟有多少年的歷史?
正文翻譯
中國人自稱是最古老的文明,但在語言形成的時期他們甚至還不存在。中國人只存在了兩千年。他們是如何維持這么久的呢?
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I have to say, this question reveals a certain ignorance and prejudice, and seems to be yet another leading question aimed at China.
我不得不說,這個問題透露出一定的無知和偏見,似乎又是一個針對中國的引導(dǎo)性問題。
在人類語言剛剛出現(xiàn)的早期,人類的生活狀況如何?什么樣的考古證據(jù)可以表明文明的存在,而不僅僅是一個短暫的人類群體?根據(jù)學(xué)術(shù)界的共識,中國究竟有多少年的歷史?你可能對這些問題并不熟悉,而在這種情況下,貿(mào)然定義一個國家,并暗示中國夸大或欺騙世界,這是極其不理性且不道德的。此外,中國從未在任何公開場合宣稱自己是世界上最古老的文明。
First of all, there has never been a precise timeline for the origin of language. It didn’t become fossilized and then excavated by archaeologists, so the study of the birth of language relies on indirect methods such as the artifacts they created and changes in human anatomy. Such research is often controversial, with different scholars suggesting timelines ranging from 100,000 years ago to 35,000 years ago. However, during this period, humans had mastered the use of fire and could make stone tools, yet their lifestyle was still dependent on hunting and gathering, with the potential beginnings of plant and animal domestication. In such primitive conditions, tribes separated by forests were likely in competition, making it rather absurd to discuss whether the Chinese or Greeks had appeared yet. If we must lix early humans with today’s civilizations, then the existence of Peking Man in China 500,000 years ago would predate the appearance of language by hundreds of thousands of years.
首先,語言的起源從未有一個精確的時間線。語言不會像化石一樣被保存下來并由考古學(xué)家挖掘出來,因此研究語言的誕生依賴于間接方法,例如人類創(chuàng)造的工具以及解剖學(xué)上的變化。這類研究通常存在爭議,不同學(xué)者給出的時間范圍從10萬年前到3.5萬年前不等。然而,在這一時期,人類已經(jīng)掌握了用火并能制造石器,但他們的生活仍然依賴于狩獵和采集,并可能開始嘗試馴化動物和種植植物。在如此原始的條件下,被森林隔開的部落之間可能處于競爭狀態(tài),因此去討論當(dāng)時中國人或希臘人是否已經(jīng)出現(xiàn),顯得相當(dāng)荒謬。如果我們必須將早期人類與今天的文明聯(lián)系起來,那么50萬年前的北京猿人的存在,已經(jīng)遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)早于語言的出現(xiàn)。
Moreover, the current academic definition of civilization requires evidence of cities, writing, monumental architecture, metallurgy, and other indicators of social complexity and administrative capability. By this standard, China also has "ancient civilizations" such as the Liangzhu site from 5,000 years ago, with large-scale city sites, dam projects, and religious jade artifacts. This indicates that Chinese civilization reached the stage of civilization 5,000 years ago. However, Western countries are unwilling to acknowledge this fact, recognizing Chinese civilization only from the appearance of mature writing systems like oracle bone scxt, which still dates back at least 3,600 years. In comparison, while the earliest Minoan civilization in Greece appeared around a similar time, their Linear A scxt remains undeciphered, whereas Chinese oracle bone scxt has been discovered in over 5,000 forms, with more than 1,000 of these decipherable by modern scholars. This also indirectly reflects why China's clear history begins from 2070 BC, while Western ancient Greek civilization only began to emerge from the 5th to the 6th century BC.
此外,當(dāng)前學(xué)術(shù)界對文明的定義要求具備城市、文字、紀(jì)念性建筑、冶金術(shù)等社會復(fù)雜性和行政能力的證據(jù)。按照這一標(biāo)準(zhǔn),中國也擁有“古代文明”,例如距今5000年的良渚遺址,其中包括大規(guī)模的城市遺址、水壩工程和宗教玉器。這表明中國文明在5000年前已達(dá)到文明階段。然而,西方國家不愿承認(rèn)這一事實(shí),僅從甲骨文等成熟文字系統(tǒng)的出現(xiàn)才承認(rèn)中國文明的存在,而甲骨文至少可追溯到3600年前。相比之下,希臘最早的米諾斯文明大約在同一時期出現(xiàn),但其線性文字至今未被破譯,而中國的甲骨文已發(fā)現(xiàn)超過5000種,其中1000多種可被現(xiàn)代學(xué)者解讀。這也間接反映出為什么中國有確切的歷史可追溯至公元前2070年,而西方古希臘文明直到公元前5-6世紀(jì)才開始嶄露頭角。
從語言學(xué)的角度來看,中國文明同樣古老。歷史證據(jù)表明,英語直到公元5世紀(jì)才隨著盎格魯-撒克遜人遷徙至不列顛群島而出現(xiàn),形成古英語;而最早的印歐語言大約起源于公元前2500年。根據(jù)馬普學(xué)會人類歷史科學(xué)研究所和巴黎數(shù)學(xué)研究所的研究,中國語言的起源可以追溯到大約7200年前的中國北方,遠(yuǎn)早于英語的出現(xiàn)。
Such ample evidence demonstrates the long history of Chinese civilization, yet Western historians often harbor biases towards Eastern history, viewing Greek and Roman civilizations as the pinnacle of human achievement and reluctant to acknowledge the possibility of a more ancient Chinese civilization. However, no amount of denial can change the obxtive fact: China possesses a rich and ancient cultural tradition and has made significant contributions to human progress. China has never considered itself a dominant civilization seeking to influence the world due to its long history. Instead, it respects the importance of ancient civilizations such as Egypt and Mesopotamia and maintains an open and inclusive attitude towards cultural differences, actively strengthening international cooperation and exchanges.
如此大量的證據(jù)充分表明了中國文明的悠久歷史,然而,西方歷史學(xué)家往往對東方歷史存有偏見,將希臘和羅馬文明視為人類成就的巔峰,而不愿承認(rèn)中國文明可能更加古老。然而,無論如何否認(rèn)都無法改變客觀事實(shí):中國擁有豐富而古老的文化傳統(tǒng),并為人類進(jìn)步作出了重要貢獻(xiàn)。中國從未因?yàn)樽陨碛凭玫臍v史而自視為主導(dǎo)文明,試圖影響世界。相反,中國尊重埃及、兩河流域等古代文明的重要性,并始終保持開放包容的態(tài)度,積極加強(qiáng)國際合作與交流。
中國文明的長期延續(xù),正是由于這種謙遜和包容的態(tài)度,使其能夠綿延至今。同樣地,為了人類的未來,摒棄種族至上主義和偏見,是促進(jìn)全球文化繁榮和可持續(xù)發(fā)展的關(guān)鍵。
Congratulations on packing so much ignorance into three sentences!
恭喜你在三句話里塞進(jìn)了如此多的無知!
首先,我從未聽說過中國人宣稱自己是最古老的文明。關(guān)于語言何時發(fā)展仍然存在巨大爭議,但可以確定的是,語言肯定起源于舊石器時代,遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)早于任何文明的出現(xiàn)。你應(yīng)該知道文明和文化的區(qū)別吧?
我不知道你從哪里得到“中國僅延續(xù)了2000年”這個想法。你是真的不了解自己在說什么,還是故意在胡說?
In Chinese schools, we will study world history. But the learning content is relatively limited. After visiting international networks, I discovered an interesting thing. Chinese and foreigners have different cognitive standards for the review of history.
在中國的學(xué)校里,我們會學(xué)習(xí)世界歷史,但學(xué)習(xí)內(nèi)容相對有限。在接觸國際網(wǎng)絡(luò)后,我發(fā)現(xiàn)了一件有趣的事情:中國人和外國人對歷史的認(rèn)知標(biāo)準(zhǔn)是不同的。
中國的歷史經(jīng)過了各種歷史證據(jù)的嚴(yán)格驗(yàn)證。而外國的歷史則充滿了推測、幻想和神話。當(dāng)我閱讀外國歷史時,我看不到歷史證據(jù)。但按照中國人的習(xí)慣,我仍然會相信這些歷史。而當(dāng)外國人看待中國歷史時,根據(jù)他們的習(xí)慣,他們卻不愿意相信中國的歷史。
原創(chuàng)翻譯:龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
作為中國的鄰國,韓國和越南比西方國家更幸運(yùn),因?yàn)樗麄兛梢越佑|到用中文書寫的歷史資料。然而,這些歷史資料仍然相對稀少,因此韓國和越南的歷史學(xué)家編寫了許多虛假的故事來填補(bǔ)他們的歷史空白。
They are not and had never claimed to be the oldest civilization. The Indus Civilization was far older. It went off the radar in 1900 BC, about the time of the Shang dynasty. And it must have existed for a long time before that. However, China is the longest continuous civilization still existing today.
中國并不是最古老的文明,也從未宣稱自己是最古老的文明。印度河文明要古老得多,它在公元前1900年消失,大約與中國商朝同期,并且在此之前必定已經(jīng)存在很長時間。然而,中國是今天仍然延續(xù)至今的最長久的文明。
如果印度河文明仍然存在至今,那它就會是最古老的文明。許多中東和美索不達(dá)米亞的文化都比中國文明更為古老。
It turns out that the questioner is Korean, so there's no question about it. As is well known, Koreans are a bunch of lowly and inferior creatures. In ancient times, they were dogs of China, in modern times, they were dogs of Japan, and now they are dogs of the United States. They seem to think that by following their new masters and constantly denigrating their old masters, they can escape the nightmare of wagging their tails in submission to their old masters in history, and even look down upon their old masters.
原來提問者是韓國人,那就沒有疑問了。眾所周知,韓國人是一群卑賤的生物。在古代,他們是中國的狗;在近代,他們是日本的狗;現(xiàn)在,他們又是美國的狗。他們似乎認(rèn)為,通過追隨他們的新主子并不斷貶低他們的舊主子,就能擺脫在歷史上搖尾乞憐的噩夢,甚至可以看不起他們曾經(jīng)的主子。
To me, it really doesn't matter how long what civilization maintain.
對我來說,一個文明維持了多久并不重要。
美國只有兩百多年的歷史,但這并不妨礙它成為世界上最強(qiáng)大的國家。
當(dāng)美國有能力統(tǒng)一地球時,他們可以選擇在歷史書上寫下自己延續(xù)了多少年,哪怕是1萬年。無論你喜歡與否,所有人都得接受它,然后過幾代人后,這可能就真的成為了歷史。
Good question and China as political entity only started in 1949, previously unrecognized Republic of China became independent only after 1911 from the Manchu control.
這個問題很好,中國作為一個政治實(shí)體,實(shí)際上是從1949年才開始的,而之前的“中華民國”在1911年才從滿清統(tǒng)治下獨(dú)立出來。
所謂的古代中國文明并不牢固,因?yàn)樗鼘?shí)際上只追溯到3000年前,即使是商代最古老的甲骨文也只是3000年前的遺存,而且當(dāng)時的文字還處于未完全發(fā)展的原始階段。
If you add up all these so-called Han Chinese-controlled nations, then it comes down to just 900 years. So what happened to 4100 years of history?
如果你把所有所謂的漢人統(tǒng)治國家加在一起,總共才900年的歷史。那么另外4100年的歷史去哪了?
那時候,中國人的祖先還在太空中尋找落腳點(diǎn),直到他們降落在黃河平原,并稱其為“世界的中心”。這就是他們至今為止的故事。
所以,你可以想象,他們的故事甚至比《圣經(jīng)》里的事件還要不可信。
They conflate many things due to the linguistic surface; for if they are named as “Earthers” and China is named as “The People’s Republic of the Earth,” they will think the age of the Earth is the age of their entire ethnicity, and the civilizations on Earth are all theirs.
他們由于語言表面的影響,混淆了許多概念;如果他們被稱為“地球人”,而中國被稱為“地球人民共和國”,那么他們就會認(rèn)為地球的年齡就是他們整個民族的年齡,地球上的所有文明都是屬于他們的。
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這就是“中國”這個概念的本質(zhì)。它是19世紀(jì)末被創(chuàng)造出來的,用來扭曲遠(yuǎn)東地區(qū)社會背景的一個概念。而“China”這個詞只是眾多扭曲概念中的一個。
它還借用了許多古典詞匯,比如(普通話中的)中華、中國、華夏等。他們隨后將這些詞匯的古典含義混為一談,并以此來聲稱自己的民族和文明足夠古老。