網(wǎng)友討論：為什么工作與生活的平衡在亞洲如此艱難？
Why work-life balance is a struggle in Asia
譯文簡介
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在辦公室，直到你的經(jīng)理離開，即使你的經(jīng)理比你晚到，并且在辦公室里閑聊和頻繁休息。
當(dāng)你快速完成工作時，這意味著你可以承擔(dān)更多的工作量，因此其他人可能會因為“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量變得過多。
總有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果沒有足夠多的人，他們會引進外國人才來讓我們更具競爭力。我們只是人口過剩。
在公司之外，這種現(xiàn)象也深深植根于我們的教育系統(tǒng)中。從小我們就被教導(dǎo)，努力工作是成功的唯一關(guān)鍵。我大部分時間都在學(xué)校和補習(xí)班度過，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入職場，長時間在辦公室工作對我來說感覺很自然。
正文翻譯
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在辦公室，直到你的經(jīng)理離開，即使你的經(jīng)理比你晚到，并且在辦公室里閑聊和頻繁休息。
當(dāng)你快速完成工作時，這意味著你可以承擔(dān)更多的工作量，因此其他人可能會因為“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量變得過多。
總有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果沒有足夠多的人，他們會引進外國人才來讓我們更具競爭力。我們只是人口過剩。
在公司之外，這種現(xiàn)象也深深植根于我們的教育系統(tǒng)中。從小我們就被教導(dǎo)，努力工作是成功的唯一關(guān)鍵。我大部分時間都在學(xué)校和補習(xí)班度過，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入職場，長時間在辦公室工作對我來說感覺很自然。
當(dāng)你快速完成工作時，這意味著你可以承擔(dān)更多的工作量，因此其他人可能會因為“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量變得過多。
總有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果沒有足夠多的人，他們會引進外國人才來讓我們更具競爭力。我們只是人口過剩。
在公司之外，這種現(xiàn)象也深深植根于我們的教育系統(tǒng)中。從小我們就被教導(dǎo)，努力工作是成功的唯一關(guān)鍵。我大部分時間都在學(xué)校和補習(xí)班度過，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入職場，長時間在辦公室工作對我來說感覺很自然。
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@wantonNoodle
From what I have observed, here are the wrong things in many of Asian offices:
If you are done with your job, you are still expected to stay in the office until your managers leave the office, even though your managers come later than you and spend their time in office chit-chatting and taking breaks every so often.
When you finish your job fast, that means you can get more workload, so someone else could be fired for 'efficiency' until your workload becomes too much.
There is always someone cheaper than you who are willing to do more. If there are not so many around, they bring in foreign talents to make us more competitive. We are simply overpopulated.
Outside the company, it is also drilled in our education system. From young age we are told that hard work is the only key to success. I spent most of my time in school and tuitions more than at home even on weekends, so working long hours in the office just felt natural to me once I joined the workfrorce.
根據(jù)我的觀察，以下是許多亞洲辦公室的錯誤現(xiàn)象：
如果你完成了工作，你仍然被期望留在辦公室，直到你的經(jīng)理離開，即使你的經(jīng)理比你晚到，并且在辦公室里閑聊和頻繁休息。
當(dāng)你快速完成工作時，這意味著你可以承擔(dān)更多的工作量，因此其他人可能會因為“效率”而被解雇，直到你的工作量變得過多。
總有人比你更便宜且愿意做更多工作。如果沒有足夠多的人，他們會引進外國人才來讓我們更具競爭力。我們只是人口過剩。
在公司之外，這種現(xiàn)象也深深植根于我們的教育系統(tǒng)中。從小我們就被教導(dǎo)，努力工作是成功的唯一關(guān)鍵。我大部分時間都在學(xué)校和補習(xí)班度過，甚至周末也是如此，所以一旦我加入職場，長時間在辦公室工作對我來說感覺很自然。
The overpopulated part is true. When we just demand our rights whether it is paid overtime, worklife balance, paid leave, or raise in wage.. the company would simply put us out and replace us with unemployed people out there who are willing to be paid cheaper and fresh. More population = less bargaining power for the workers.
人口過剩的部分是真實的。當(dāng)我們要求我們的權(quán)利，無論是加班費、工作與生活平衡、帶薪休假還是加薪……公司會直接解雇我們并用那些愿意以更低薪酬工作的失業(yè)者來取代我們。更多的人口 = 工人更少的議價能力。
Confirmed Singapore. Only in Singapore does point 3 uniquely stand lol. Even other developed Asian economies like SK and JP don't have that issue compared to us.
我確認你說的是新加坡，因為只有新加坡的第三點特別突出。即使是其他發(fā)達的亞洲經(jīng)濟體，如韓國和日本，也不存在我們這樣的問題。
I've never worked in Asia. If the culture is for workers to leave only after the manager has left, then perhaps the manager should take a leadership role, notice what's going on with his employees and come in at the same time as his employees and leave at a reasonable time. This self-righteous attitude where everyone needs to be in the office before the manager arrives and can only leave after the manager has left is an unsustainable practice and spreads a culture of being dependent on a manager. Here in the US, the culture is that in some, not all, professional jobs, you're encouraged to speak up, participate and negotiate. And if you don't like your job, you take what you've learned and move onto another job. Perhaps that opens up a position for a cheaper employee, but you've moved on to a new job you like and/or higher pay given your experience from previous jobs. But that's just my view and experience.
我從未在亞洲工作過。如果文化是員工只有在經(jīng)理離開后才能離開，那么也許經(jīng)理應(yīng)該發(fā)揮領(lǐng)導(dǎo)作用，注意到員工的情況并與員工同時到達并在合理的時間離開。這種自以為是的態(tài)度，即每個人都需要在經(jīng)理到達之前到達辦公室，并且只能在經(jīng)理離開后離開，是一種不可持續(xù)的做法，并傳播了一種依賴經(jīng)理的文化。在美國，文化是在某些（并非所有）專業(yè)工作中，你被鼓勵發(fā)聲、參與和談判。如果你不喜歡你的工作，你可以帶著你學(xué)到的東西轉(zhuǎn)到另一份工作。也許這為更便宜的員工騰出了一個職位，但你已經(jīng)轉(zhuǎn)到了一個你喜歡的新工作，或者因為之前的工作經(jīng)驗而獲得更高的薪酬。但這只是我的觀點和經(jīng)驗。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
I lived and worked in South Korea for 2 years. It was brutal! I’m so happy to be back in the US working 4 days a week for my 40hours and leaving everything at work. I know a 4 day work week is still a privilege tho.
我在韓國生活和工作了兩年。那真是殘酷！我很高興回到美國，每周工作4天，40小時，并把所有事情都留在工作中。我知道每周工作4天仍然是一種特權(quán)。
No wonder people don't want to have kids. There's no time to spend time with the kids
難怪人們不想要孩子，因為他們沒有時間陪伴孩子。
It’s because of the Confucian work ethic, basically saying your only source of worth is how obedient you are and how hard you work.
這是因為儒家的工作倫理，基本上說你的唯一價值來源是你有多聽話和你工作得有多努力。
Super similar to the puritanical work culture of USA and UK
這與美國和英國的清教徒工作文化非常相似。
It’s a struggle everywhere for poor and middle class income families
對于貧困家庭和中產(chǎn)階級家庭來說，這在各地都是一場斗爭。
Bingo! Americans actually work more hours than japanese and they have universal health care, robust transportation, cheap local food, better schooling, and very cheap houses they refuse to buy so much so they have a market place for them
沒錯！美國人實際上比日本人工作時間更長，而且他們有全民醫(yī)療保健、強大的交通系統(tǒng)、便宜的本地食品、更好的學(xué)校以及非常便宜的他們拒絕購買的房屋，以至于他們有一個市場棲身。
It depends very much on what you do as a job. For law firms, consulting, etc... 60 hour weeks are the norm, even in Europe (speaking very much from experience). Also, upper management in companies work A LOT. The only people who have cushy 38 hours are employees in big companies such as Volkswagen. And in the US hustle culture is a big thing. Many people hold down several jobs because one job isn't enough to pay the bills.
這在很大程度上取決于你從事的工作。對于律師事務(wù)所、咨詢公司等……每周60小時是常態(tài)，即使在歐洲也是如此（根據(jù)經(jīng)驗）。此外，公司的高層管理人員工作非常多。只有像大眾這樣的大公司的員工才能享受輕松的38小時工作制。而在美國，忙碌文化是一個大問題，許多人同時做幾份工作，因為一份工作不足以支付賬單。
Big difference is, in Europe and the US, more work means more pay. In many places in Asia, you're expected to do more work without extra pay
最大的區(qū)別是在歐洲和美國，更多的工作意味著更多的薪酬。而在亞洲的許多地方，你被期望做更多的工作而沒有額外的薪酬。
in asia, things are weirder when the management just expects you stay longer and be able to respond to their request anytime they want. they seek to control the employee with no extra overtime pay. this is super toxic especially for young graduates.
在亞洲，當(dāng)管理層只是期望你待得更久并能夠隨時響應(yīng)他們的要求時，事情就變得更奇怪了。他們試圖在沒有額外加班費的情況下控制員工，這對年輕畢業(yè)生尤其有毒。
Having worked in a big MNC whose name only has 4 letters, work life balance there is really non existent.
I am expected to work late or attend 10pm calls once every fortnight. Mentor was sending emails at 10.30pm on a Saturday. Requests that come in at 5pm on a Friday must still be attended to. So glad to be out of that hellhole.
我曾在一家名字只有四個字母的大型跨國公司工作，那里的工作與生活平衡根本不存在。
我被期望工作到很晚或每兩周參加一次晚上10點的電話會議。指導(dǎo)者在周六晚上10:30還在發(fā)郵件，周五下午5點收到的請求仍然必須處理。我很高興離開了那個地獄。
The problem is business owners wanting to impose their work schedule on employees.
Employees work for a certain amount of time and a fixed salary.
If you want me to invest as many hours as you in the company, give me shares and I will be included in the benefits split. To put it another way: recruit partners and not employees.
問題是企業(yè)主想要將他們的工作時間表強加給員工。
員工工作一定的時間并獲得固定工資。
如果你希望我在公司投入和你一樣多的時間，那么請給我股份，我將參與利益分配。換句話說：你需要招募合作伙伴而不是員工。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Also most workers are more efficient working less hours and need rest and other activities to reciperate. Business owners and entrepeneurs are abnormalities that can work tirelessly on end and don’t understand this. It’s also much easier to work endlessly when you have ownership. That same level of motivation doesn’t exist when you’re working for someone else.
此外，大多數(shù)員工在較少的工作時間內(nèi)效率更高，并且需要休息和其他活動來恢復(fù)。企業(yè)主和企業(yè)家是能夠不知疲倦地工作的異常人群，他們不理解這一點。當(dāng)你有所有權(quán)時，無休止地工作也更容易。當(dāng)你為別人工作時，這種動力就不存在了。
here in my country everyone will automatically stop at 5pm. My boss will be the 1st person to go home. Everyone went home rushingly (eventhough with no solid reason). if you stay more than 5 minutes, everyone will push you to go home. Tagline 'Never mix your work with home'
在我的國家，每個人都會在下午5點自動停止工作。我的老板會是第一個回家的人，每個人都匆匆回家（即使沒有充分的理由）。如果你待超過5分鐘，每個人都會推你回家，我們的口號是“永遠不要把工作和家庭混在一起”。
The big reason for this in Asia is because of high population. There will another 1000 to take up the job if a person leaves . Competition is very high due to high population nothing else !!
這在亞洲的主要原因是因為人口眾多。如果一個人離開，還會有1000人愿意接手這份工作。由于人口眾多，競爭非常激烈，沒有其他原因！
Asian people are really material oriented : having money = buying stuffs or service, etc.... for the moment they haven't discover over it but seems young people are showing a better way..
亞洲人非常物質(zhì)導(dǎo)向：有錢 = 買東西或服務(wù)等……目前他們還沒有超越這一點，但似乎年輕人正在展示更好的方式。
Many Asian families also expect adult children to buy homes for their parents and support the entire family on their wages. It's a very toxic mindset!
許多亞洲家庭還期望成年子女為父母買房，并用他們的工資支持整個家庭。這是一種非常有毒的心態(tài)！
Certain western countries can afford to APPEAR to be less materialistic because of wealth accumulation through colonisation. Capitalism was not originated in Asia. On the contrary, many least developed countries are found in Asia and are widely thought to be the least materialistic.
某些西方國家能夠顯得不那么物質(zhì)主義，是因為他們通過殖民積累了財富。資本主義并非起源于亞洲。相反，許多最不發(fā)達國家位于亞洲并被廣泛認為是最不物質(zhì)主義的。
It doesnt mean that they earn more by going through crazy hours of overtime. For most of cases, they are doing a free labor forced by their company. You'll get kicked out when you say NO to it.
這并不意味著他們通過瘋狂的加班賺得更多。在大多數(shù)情況下，他們是在做公司強加的無償勞動。當(dāng)你對此說“不”時，你就會被解雇。
u talk about japan, check india, these things are not even discussed over 70% of workers in india are overworked ! many people die from heart attack due to overwork. And the worst part is our parents enourage their child to overwork as it will success which is bs actually bs
你談到了日本，但看看印度，這些事情甚至沒有被討論，超過70%的印度工人過度工作！許多人因過度工作而死于心臟病。最糟糕的是我們的父母鼓勵孩子過度工作并認為這會帶來成功，這實際上是胡說八道。
Maybe its not mentioned but Indonesian workung culture actually is in war between Asian culture and Western culture.
.
Employer and managers prefer their staff to have Asian culture. Its highly common especially with boomer mindset who always judge Gen Z as being ungratefull brat for being accepted to work on their workplace. Kind of ironic, they are being the enabler of Asian culture because they got this treatment and survive. Kind of survival bias.
While employee would prefer having Western culture (8 hours per day and no contact outside of working hours). But most of Gen Z and Gen Y that strugling to implement this culture actually got bad impression of being less loyal regardless of their job performance. This culture is more common and well implemented in Western branch company.
Indonesian company at common actually still prefer to has Asian culture since ... you know, regardless of the productivity or their job performance.
The current disruption of worforce seems to be a shift towards Asian work culture since the government also promoting it and the employeer would choose everyone who want to go to this culture because its simply harder to get job for job hunter. Its common to listen this phrase, "Nobody ask you to join my company, if you are not willing to do our rule, we can look other employee, there's many wanted your position!"
也許你沒有提到，但印度尼西亞的工作文化實際上處于亞洲文化和西方文化之間的戰(zhàn)爭中。
雇主和經(jīng)理更喜歡員工擁有亞洲文化。這非常普遍，尤其是那些總是將Z世代視為忘恩負義的嬰兒潮一代心態(tài)的人，因為他們被接受在他們的工作場所工作。有點諷刺的是他們是亞洲文化的推動者，因為他們得到了這種待遇并生存了下來。這是一種生存偏見。
而員工則更傾向于擁有西方文化（每天8小時，工作之外不聯(lián)系），但大多數(shù)試圖實施這種文化的Z世代和Y世代實際上給人留下了不忠誠的壞印象，無論他們的工作表現(xiàn)如何。這種文化在西方分公司中更為常見和實施。
印度尼西亞公司通常仍然更喜歡亞洲文化，因為……你知道的，無論生產(chǎn)力或工作表現(xiàn)如何。
當(dāng)前的勞動力似乎正在轉(zhuǎn)向亞洲工作文化，因為政府也在推廣它，雇主會選擇所有愿意接受這種文化的人，因為對于求職者來說，找到工作變得更難了。我們經(jīng)常能聽到這句話：“沒有人要求你加入我的公司，如果你不愿意遵守我們的規(guī)則，我們可以找其他員工，有很多人想要你的職位！”
It’s in the culture. Unfortunately, I’m afraid they’ll never change. People in these countries just don't know any better than that and are not willing to change. Upper management is the problem here in Taiwan at least. Most of them are old school people who lik3 to stick with their old ways and expect everybody else to follow the same path. These people have no life aside from job and it’s pretty sad.
這是文化的一部分，不幸的是我擔(dān)心他們永遠不會改變。這些國家的人們只知道這些，并且不愿意改變。至少在臺灣（地區(qū)），高層管理人員是問題所在，他們中的大多數(shù)是老派人士，喜歡堅持他們的舊方式并期望其他人遵循同樣的道路。這些人除了工作之外沒有生活，這很可悲。
The strange thing is that overwork is often an indicative of low productivity, in most cases a reduced staff of let's say two or three people are doing more effort to do the same job that would be done in half of the time by a team of five or six coworkers.
Speaking about Japan and South Korean in particular I think comes off unnoticed the desire to appear busy for the sake of it that is common in those two societies. This fact alone can push to the creation of unnecessary or redundant tasks to be fulfilled only to make the one doing it appear busy and as handworker as possible. Japanese offices are also notorious for their attachment to old technologies - and it's not even uncommon that you'll find a fax-machine still being used there.
At the end it doesn't add up, at least in the Japanese case because if the whole country is lock in this culture of overwork to the point of death and at expense of low birth rates so how productivity have become stagnated? It's not only even that they're overworking themselves to death they are doing this to add nothing or very little to their annual GDP.
奇怪的是過度工作通常是低生產(chǎn)力的表現(xiàn)，在大多數(shù)情況下，減少到兩三個人的員工團隊在做同樣的工作時，會比五六個人的團隊花費更多的努力。
特別是談到日本和韓國時，我認為他們?yōu)榱孙@得忙碌而忙碌的愿望在這兩個社會中很常見，但卻被忽視了。這一事實本身就會推動創(chuàng)建不必要或冗余的任務(wù)，只是為了讓做這些事的人顯得忙碌和盡可能勤奮。日本辦公室也以對舊技術(shù)的依戀而聞名——你甚至?xí)l(fā)現(xiàn)傳真機仍然在那里使用。
最終這并不合理，至少在日本的情況下，因為如果整個國家都陷入這種過度工作到死的文化，并以低出生率為代價，那么生產(chǎn)力怎么會不停滯不前？他們不僅過度工作到死，而且這樣做對他們的年度GDP幾乎沒有貢獻。
This is misleading - North America work on average 38 hours a week?? That's completely false. Working less than 40hrs a week is considered a par time job, and part timers don't receive work benefits. You simply cannot sustain a living doing part time. Most families in North America needs 2 full time income to sustain, or a person works a full time job with a part time on the side.
這是誤導(dǎo)性的——北美平均每周工作38小時？？這完全是錯誤的。每周工作少于40小時被視為兼職工作，兼職者不享受工作福利，你根本無法靠兼職維持生活。北美的大多數(shù)家庭需要兩份全職收入來維持生活，或者一個人做一份全職工作，同時兼職。
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Same in India, the reason is simple, I am not doing that work someone else is ready to do the same work in 50% of the pay..
在印度也是如此，原因很簡單，我不做那份工作，別人愿意以50%的薪酬做同樣的工作。
Perhaps this will only change when India reache the stage where population ages fastly. Now there are abundant young people, so employers have too many choices
也許只有當(dāng)印度進入人口快速老齡化的階段時，這種情況才會改變?，F(xiàn)在印度有大量的年輕人，所以雇主有太多的選擇。
There is a saying in Asia, "The corporation owns you...". This is an unfortunate situation for many Asian Countries, the Execs at the top play while the hourly workers suffer.
亞洲有句俗話：“公司擁有你……”。這對許多亞洲國家來說是一個不幸的情況，高層管理者在享受，而小時工卻在受苦。
I would say working hours in most of Asian countries could be exhausted and lead to terminal illness. I have seen number of my colleagues in different divisions died at middle age between 40s - 50s.
我認為大多數(shù)亞洲國家的工作時間可能會讓人精疲力盡，并導(dǎo)致絕癥。我見過許多不同部門的同事在40到50歲的中年時期去世。
I have a lot of night meetings... So you can't really turn off your mind from work and relax. So most of the time I felt like I am working until late night even though I have free time in between before my night meetings start.
我有很多夜間會議……所以你無法真正從工作中解脫出來并放松。所以大多數(shù)時候我感覺自己工作到深夜，盡管在夜間會議開始之前我有空閑時間。
I suffered the same, I got stress, diabetes and health issues because of over working and no physical activity time. Day long work staring 3 computer screens.
我也遭受了同樣的痛苦，由于過度工作和沒有體育活動時間，我得了壓力、糖尿病和健康問題。我整天盯著三個電腦屏幕工作。
Many of the working class in the Philippines have to work 15 hrs a day and 7 days a week going home only to sleep because of basic pay is not enough and cost of living continues to rise.
菲律賓的許多工人階級不得不每天工作15小時，每周工作7天，回家只是為了睡覺，因為基本工資不夠，生活成本不斷上升。
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My condolences to the millions of C....
我對數(shù)百萬C工人表示哀悼，他們因?qū)嵤?96工作制度的公司的剝削和奴役而失去了生M和理智，而ZF對此視而不見。
As an asian american, the biggest difference i constantly hear between US and Asian countries.
Asia: If you are not willing to do it, there is always someone willing to take your job at a lower cost.
US: firing and rehiring means we would have to pay the new person at the current market rate.
Asians have harder time because they are working against each other. In the US, employees work for their companies, but working against their companies on personal agenda.
作為一個亞裔美國人，我經(jīng)常聽到美國和亞洲國家之間的最大區(qū)別。
亞洲：如果你不愿意做，總有人愿意以更低的成本接手你的工作。
美國：解雇和重新雇用意味著我們必須以當(dāng)前市場價支付新員工。
亞洲人更難，因為他們彼此競爭。在美國，員工為公司工作，但在個人議程上與公司對抗。
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Well, Asia is getting richer while the West is impoveshing. So there is your answer. They needed to work hard to catch up with the west. People forget Westerners were overworked as well during industrial times.
好吧，亞洲正在變得更富有，而西方正在貧困化，所以這就是你的答案。他們需要努力工作以趕上西方，人們忘記了西方人在工業(yè)時代也過度工作。
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As a father, I would rather work long hours to be able to bear the financial burden instead of in middle of no where not knowing how to pay your bills and children's education. The situation is ironic and is a fact which you can find anywhere here in Asian among working class.
作為一個父親，我寧愿長時間工作以承擔(dān)經(jīng)濟負擔(dān)，而不是陷入不知如何支付賬單和孩子教育費用的困境中。這種情況很諷刺，但是這是你在亞洲工人階級中隨處可見的事實。