我是一個(gè)京族越南人，感覺中國(guó)像是我們的祖國(guó)，而越南則是一個(gè)仍在尋找自己身份的國(guó)家。這種感覺不常見嗎？
I'm a Kinh Vietnamese, and I feel a stronger connection to China than Vietnam. It feels as if China is our motherland, and that Vietnam is a country that's still trying to find its identity. Is this uncommon?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
網(wǎng)友：自從10世紀(jì)脫離漢朝統(tǒng)治以來，北方巨人曾多次試圖重新侵略越南，但都未能成功。在蒙古指揮官的短暫占領(lǐng)期間，他們的將軍俘獲了一些越南英雄，并通過提供優(yōu)渥的職位來勸說他們與侵略者合作......
正文翻譯
Tan Do-Quy
Since its independence from Han ruling in 10th century, several times the Northern giant has tried to invade Vietnam again unsucessfully. During a short occupation by the Mongolian commanders, their generals captured some Viet heroes and persuaded them to collaborate with the agressors by offering good posts;
自從10世紀(jì)脫離漢朝統(tǒng)治以來，北方巨人曾多次試圖重新侵略越南，但都未能成功。在蒙古指揮官的短暫占領(lǐng)期間，他們的將軍俘獲了一些越南英雄，并通過提供優(yōu)渥的職位來勸說他們與侵略者合作；
Since its independence from Han ruling in 10th century, several times the Northern giant has tried to invade Vietnam again unsucessfully. During a short occupation by the Mongolian commanders, their generals captured some Viet heroes and persuaded them to collaborate with the agressors by offering good posts;
自從10世紀(jì)脫離漢朝統(tǒng)治以來，北方巨人曾多次試圖重新侵略越南，但都未能成功。在蒙古指揮官的短暫占領(lǐng)期間，他們的將軍俘獲了一些越南英雄，并通過提供優(yōu)渥的職位來勸說他們與侵略者合作；
A Vietnamese resistant replied: “ History has well defined: there are two countries the Giant northern and we small one in the South; I prefer to be a dead ghost here rather than a kinglet in the North; The Viet hero was executed consequently, but our Nation has been surviving until now facing various foreign attacks ….his tomb was well resereved by his fellowmen on his homeland and his words are wselle carved on the stone !
一位越南抵抗者回應(yīng)道：“歷史已經(jīng)清楚地定義了：有兩個(gè)國(guó)家，一個(gè)是北方的巨人，另一個(gè)是我們南方的小國(guó)；我寧愿在這里做一個(gè)死鬼，也不愿在北方做一個(gè)小王?！?這位越南英雄因此被處決，但我們的國(guó)家在面臨各種外來攻擊時(shí)依然存活至今……他的墳?zāi)贡煌诠枢l(xiāng)好好保留，他的話也被刻在石頭上！
一位越南抵抗者回應(yīng)道：“歷史已經(jīng)清楚地定義了：有兩個(gè)國(guó)家，一個(gè)是北方的巨人，另一個(gè)是我們南方的小國(guó)；我寧愿在這里做一個(gè)死鬼，也不愿在北方做一個(gè)小王?！?這位越南英雄因此被處決，但我們的國(guó)家在面臨各種外來攻擊時(shí)依然存活至今……他的墳?zāi)贡煌诠枢l(xiāng)好好保留，他的話也被刻在石頭上！
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Vietnam can survive without being assimilated by China like many other nations thanks to the national consciousness and the courage to sacrifice for the independence of the Vietnamese people.
If Vietnamese didn't have self-respect like you, there wouldn't be any Vietnam country here today.
越南能夠在沒有被中國(guó)同化的情況下生存下來，正是因?yàn)閾碛忻褡逡庾R(shí)和為越南人民獨(dú)立而犧牲的勇氣。如果越南人沒有像你這樣的自尊心，今天就不會(huì)有越南這個(gè)國(guó)家了。
This is a very common feeling. Vietnamese are Chinese after all. That is the truth.
Vietnam was part of China for more than 1000 years. Their ancestors are Chinese, you can’t change your DNA so today Vietnamese were as Chinese as their ancestors.
China is indeed the motherland of Vietnam province. Many Chinese yearn for the day when Vietnam reunite with the Mother China. It is inevitable and will happen sooner or later.
What is once part of China will once again return to China. One inch of territory cannot be given up. Vietnamese will once again become Chinese like their ancestors whether through peace or force.
這種感覺非常普遍。畢竟，越南人就是中國(guó)人。這是事實(shí)。
越南曾是中國(guó)的一部分超過1000年。它們的祖先是中國(guó)人，你改變不了自己的DNA，所以今天的越南人和他們的祖先一樣是中國(guó)人。
中國(guó)的確是越南的母國(guó)。許多中國(guó)人渴望有一天越南能夠重新與祖國(guó)統(tǒng)一。這是不可避免的，遲早會(huì)發(fā)生。
曾經(jīng)是中國(guó)的一部分，終將再次回歸中國(guó)。一寸土地都不能放棄。越南人將再次成為像他們祖先一樣的中國(guó)人，無論是通過和平還是武力。
This is normal and understands your thinking and the idea of ??finding an independent national identity.
In Chinese civilization, ethnic groups are never divided by blood, but by cultural identity. Speaking Chinese, learning Chinese traditional classics, and etiquette are "civilized people", and they are the same ethnic group. The modern concept of nationality is an imported product from the West. This is not a good thing, but it is indeed common. Most modern countries are divided into countries by ethnicity. According to the ancient Chinese national concept, northern Vietnam can indeed be said to be no different from the Han. Vietnam is now an independent country that needs to shape its own national identity and must be cut off from the Han Chinese in China.
這是正常的，并且理解你尋找獨(dú)立民族身份的想法。在中華文明中，民族從來不是通過血緣劃分的，而是通過文化認(rèn)同來劃分的。說中文、學(xué)習(xí)中國(guó)傳統(tǒng)經(jīng)典和禮儀的都是“文明人”，他們屬于同一個(gè)民族。現(xiàn)代的民族概念是西方引入的產(chǎn)物。這并不是一件好事，但確實(shí)很常見。大多數(shù)現(xiàn)代國(guó)家是根據(jù)民族劃分的。根據(jù)古代中國(guó)的民族觀念，北越確實(shí)可以說與漢族沒有區(qū)別。越南現(xiàn)在是一個(gè)獨(dú)立的國(guó)家，需要塑造自己的民族身份，并且必須與中國(guó)的漢族割斷聯(lián)系。
So what do you think China's identity is? If you think you're Chinese, so are you Han, Manchu, Mongol, or Baiyue? Are you someone who lives in the house whole the life, or is born on horseback, or is a lifelong wanderer with no fixed place?
If you grow wet rice, live in villages, or like to be near rivers, or use “Qu?c ng?” scxt, or prefer love. You're a Vietnamese.
If you hunt or grow wheat, stay in caves or in high places, or use hieroglyphs, attach importance to material things, money etc. You are not Vietnamese.
Yes or no, your choice. Vietnamese people don't force you to do anything but be yourself.
那么你認(rèn)為中國(guó)的身份是什么？如果你認(rèn)為自己是中國(guó)人，那你是漢族、滿族、蒙古族，還是百越族？你是一個(gè)一輩子都住在房子里的人，還是一個(gè)生來騎馬的人，或者是一個(gè)沒有固定地方的終生漂泊者？
如果你種水稻，住在村莊，或者喜歡靠近河流，或者使用“國(guó)語”文字，或者偏愛愛情，那么你就是越南人。
如果你狩獵或者種小麥，住在洞里或者高處，或者使用象形文字，重視物質(zhì)、金錢等等，那么你就不是越南人。
是與否，你的選擇。越南人不會(huì)強(qiáng)迫你做任何事，只要做自己就好。
You are just a fake juror, not a juror. The Kinh ethnic group has had a national identity for a long time and the Chinese are the people who are searching for their own identity, so where to go or the world's children are theirs. In 1979, the reason why the Chinese army fought 20km to Hanoi was because Vietnamese people like your family provided intelligence to the Chinese army. Don't consider yourself a jerk anymore. You are a male flower intelligence
你只是一個(gè)假陪審員，不是陪審員。京族早就有了國(guó)家認(rèn)同，而中國(guó)人是正在尋找自己身份的人，所以哪里去，世界上的孩子都是他們的。1979年，中國(guó)軍隊(duì)之所以打到河內(nèi)20公里，是因?yàn)橄衲慵疫@樣的人向中國(guó)軍隊(duì)提供了情報(bào)。別再自以為是了，你就是一個(gè)愚蠢的間諜。
I think you need to study more about Vietnamese history and culture than Chinese. I don’t comment just for educate you. I used to feel the same. But I realized that Chinese films, stories, idols inspire me too much so I forgot that Vietnam also has more than thousand years history and it is not need to find identity. You are the one who need to find your identity, your love to your country, your attention to your contry culture.
我覺得你應(yīng)該比研究中國(guó)歷史文化更多地學(xué)習(xí)越南的歷史和文化。我不評(píng)論只是為了教育你。我曾經(jīng)也有同樣的想法。但我意識(shí)到，中國(guó)的電影、故事、偶像對(duì)我啟發(fā)太大，以至于我忘記了越南也有著超過千年的歷史，根本不需要去尋找身份。你才是需要去找到自己的身份、對(duì)自己國(guó)家的熱愛、對(duì)自己國(guó)家文化的關(guān)注的人。
I have heard of a manchu guy dreaming about travelling back to Ming dynasty to save it from Manchu invasion. This kind of feeling actually happened very often among those highly sinicized minorities in China, such as Manchu and mongolian, who often take side with Han instead of their ancestor. This is what's going to happen if their is no deliberate emphasis of ethic identity.
It was actually quite common among ancient vietnamese to feel emotionally attached to China. It was only after the independence, vietnam started the "thousands years of Chinese invasion" education to establish its national identity. Otherwise, it will be hard for vietnamese to distinguish themselves from Chinese, and what happened to those sinicized minorities in China may also happen to vietnamese.
我聽說過一個(gè)滿洲人夢(mèng)想回到明朝去拯救它免受滿洲入侵。實(shí)際上，這種情感在中國(guó)一些高度漢化的少數(shù)民族中非常常見，比如滿洲人和蒙古人，他們往往站在漢族一方，而不是他們的祖先。這就是如果沒有故意強(qiáng)調(diào)民族身份，可能會(huì)發(fā)生的情況。
在古代越南人中，感情上與中國(guó)有聯(lián)系的情況其實(shí)也很常見。只有在獲得獨(dú)立后，越南才開始進(jìn)行“千年中國(guó)侵略”教育，以建立其民族身份。否則，越南人將很難區(qū)分自己和中國(guó)人，可能會(huì)發(fā)生與中國(guó)那些漢化少數(shù)民族相似的情況。
First off, by facts alone, Vietnamese are not of Chinese origin.
The Vietnamese have their own identity as a culture. But the problem is that the Vietnamese cultural promotion is weak in the midst of cultural exposures on social media. Personally, I did have the feeling of connection to Western life but then realized how much I missed as a Vietnamese. I just think that if you do spend some time immersed in the Vietnamese actual lifestyle, you’ll figure it in your own way. I think it is a common thing in Vietnam, IMO. Some people say that Vietnamese culture is hybrid, with origins from China, Khmer, and the West. If it is even true (while it is not), then this fusion makes us exceptional in some way, right?
首先，僅憑事實(shí)，越南人并不是中國(guó)的后裔。
越南人有自己的文化身份。但問題在于，越南文化的推廣在社交媒體上的文化暴露面前較為薄弱。就個(gè)人而言，我確實(shí)曾經(jīng)感受到與西方生活的聯(lián)系，但后來意識(shí)到作為越南人我錯(cuò)過了很多。我認(rèn)為如果你花些時(shí)間沉浸在真正的越南生活方式中，你會(huì)以自己的方式理解這一切。我認(rèn)為這在越南是一個(gè)普遍現(xiàn)象，個(gè)人觀點(diǎn)。有些人說越南文化是混合的，起源于中國(guó)、柬埔寨和西方。如果這是真的（雖然并非如此），那么這種融合使我們?cè)谀撤N程度上是獨(dú)特的，不是嗎？
最后，有一個(gè)誤解，關(guān)于叛國(guó)與進(jìn)步。如果你不按照你人民的想法去思考，那是進(jìn)步。如果你反對(duì)你人民，那是叛國(guó)。如果你有不同的想法，并不意味著你是個(gè)叛徒。
What have problem when i'm saying:
"I'm a Han in China, and I feel a stronger connection to Africa than China. It feels as if Africa is our motherland, and that China is a country that's still trying to find its identity."
Most of the answers are based on the premise that the ancestors of the Vietnamese are Han Chinese because of genetics to demonstrate closeness. No buddy, genetics don't make us attached to someone. Socialization brings us together. It is awareness, upbringing and upbringing, not pre-determined by genetics. I bet your 20-year-old adopted child will closer to your than it's biological father.
我在說：“我是中國(guó)的漢族人，我覺得自己與非洲的聯(lián)系比與中國(guó)更強(qiáng)烈。感覺非洲才是我們的祖國(guó)，而中國(guó)是一個(gè)仍在尋找自我認(rèn)同的國(guó)家?！睍r(shí)，哪里出了問題？
大多數(shù)回答都是基于“越南人的祖先是漢族”這一前提，試圖通過基因來證明與漢族的親近。不是的，基因并不能讓我們與某人產(chǎn)生聯(lián)系。是社會(huì)化把我們聯(lián)系在一起。是意識(shí)、養(yǎng)育，而不是由基因預(yù)先決定的。我敢打賭，你的20歲收養(yǎng)的孩子比親生父親和你更親。
There is a huge problem with official or unofficial history teaching and research in Vietnam, full of mistakes and fakes. Yes, even in academic research, Vietnam is falsifying, preventing local Vietnamese research from being published in foreign journals. Further, the Vietnamese network is full of various historical lies. You can check out Professor Le Minh Khai's blog which can help you understand the history and origin of Vietnam.
越南的官方或非官方歷史教學(xué)和研究存在很大問題，充滿了錯(cuò)誤和偽造。是的，甚至在學(xué)術(shù)研究中，越南也在進(jìn)行偽造，阻止本地的越南研究在外國(guó)期刊上發(fā)表。此外，越南的網(wǎng)絡(luò)充滿了各種歷史謊言。你可以看看黎明凱教授的博客，幫助你了解越南的歷史和起源。
If you are a Vietnamese but have lived more than two decades in China or were born in China and have lived there ever since, I have no comment.
But if you were born in Vietnam and have been living in Vietnam for years, this is very very uncommon, I would say.
如果你是越南人，但在中國(guó)生活了超過二十年，或者在中國(guó)出生并一直住在那里，我就不評(píng)論了。
但如果你是在越南出生并在越南生活多年，這種情況非常非常罕見，我可以這么說。
Your feelings are not entirely uncommon, especially given the historical and cultural ties between Vietnam and China. The Kinh people, as the majority ethnic group in Vietnam, have a long history of interaction with Chinese civilization, including periods of Chinese rule and significant cultural exchange. This has influenced various aspects of Vietnamese culture, language, and identity.
Many Vietnamese people have complex feelings about their relationship with China, shaped by historical events, such as periods of colonization and conflict, as well as cultural affinities. Some individuals may feel a connection to Chinese culture, language, or philosophy, which can create a sense of kinship or identity that feels stronger than their connection to Vietnam.
你的感受并不完全罕見，特別是考慮到越南與中國(guó)之間的歷史和文化聯(lián)系。作為越南的主要民族，京族與中國(guó)文明有著悠久的交往歷史，包括中國(guó)的統(tǒng)治時(shí)期以及大量的文化交流。這些都影響了越南文化、語言和身份的各個(gè)方面。
許多越南人對(duì)與中國(guó)的關(guān)系有著復(fù)雜的感情，這些情感受到歷史事件的影響，比如殖民和沖突時(shí)期，以及文化上的親近。有些人可能會(huì)感到與中國(guó)文化、語言或哲學(xué)的聯(lián)系，這可能會(huì)形成一種比他們與越南的聯(lián)系更強(qiáng)烈的同胞感或身份認(rèn)同。
Your perspective might reflect a nuanced understanding of identity that acknowledges the interplay between cultural heritage and national identity. It's important to recognize that feelings of connection to a broader cultural or historical context, like that of China, can coexist with a sense of belonging to Vietnam. Ultimately, identity is deeply personal and can be shaped by a variety of factors, including family background, education, and personal experiences.
另一方面，越南也有著豐富的歷史、傳統(tǒng)和身份，許多人都在積極擁抱這些。在這個(gè)快速變化的世界中，許多國(guó)家都面臨著尋找民族認(rèn)同的斗爭(zhēng)，越南也不例外。
你的觀點(diǎn)可能反映了對(duì)身份的一種深刻理解，承認(rèn)文化遺產(chǎn)與民族認(rèn)同之間的相互作用。重要的是要認(rèn)識(shí)到，對(duì)中國(guó)這樣的更廣泛文化或歷史背景的聯(lián)系感，能夠與對(duì)越南的歸屬感共存。歸根結(jié)底，身份是非常個(gè)人化的，受到家庭背景、教育以及個(gè)人經(jīng)歷等多種因素的影響。
When I visited Vietnam, I saw a lot of Chinese characters on ancient Vietnam buildings. Ancient books in Vietnam are in Chinese, family books in Chinese. But now Vietnam doesn't use Chinese characters anymore. So to connect with Vietnamese ancestors, knowing Chinese make you feel closer…so I believe the connection is not to China but to your ancestors.
當(dāng)我訪問越南時(shí)，我看到許多越南古老建筑上都有中文。越南的古籍是用中文寫的，家譜也是用中文寫的。但現(xiàn)在越南不再使用漢字了。所以，為了與越南的祖先建立聯(lián)系，學(xué)習(xí)中文會(huì)讓你感覺更親近……所以我認(rèn)為這種聯(lián)系并不是與中國(guó)的關(guān)系，而是與你的祖先的關(guān)系。
Maybe because you have been exposed to Chinese culture and you have come to love it. Can I know how long you have been to Vietnam and experience true, authentic Vietnamese culture ? The same question for China. What specific quality of Chinese people or China in general that you resonate with?
也許是因?yàn)槟憬佑|了中國(guó)文化并且開始喜愛它。能告訴我你在越南待了多久，體驗(yàn)過真正的、地道的越南文化嗎？中國(guó)呢？你從中國(guó)人或中國(guó)整體中感受到的特質(zhì)是什么？
Are you sure that you’re 100% Vietnamese ?, like in 1960–1970, there’re alot of Chinese in Vietnam, so maybe one of your ancestor maybe Chinese, but i don’t agree with you that Vietnam is still find its identity, we had our tradition for over 1000 years
你確定你是100%的越南人嗎？像在1960-1970年期間，越南有很多中國(guó)人，所以可能你的某個(gè)祖先是中國(guó)人，但我不同意你說的越南仍在尋找自己的身份，我們有著超過1000年的傳統(tǒng)。
I have met and chatted with a lot of Vietnamese and whenever it comes to the Vietnam-China war or the Vietnamese-Chinese identity, their only attitude towards it is disgusting.
My observations on Quora over the years told me immediately that this fake question was a troll. Chinese Quorans have many dirty ways to tease the Vietnamese.
我遇到過并與很多越南人聊天，每當(dāng)談到越南-中國(guó)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)或越南-中國(guó)身份問題時(shí)，他們唯一的態(tài)度就是厭惡。
我在Quora上的觀察告訴我，這個(gè)問題立即讓我覺得是一個(gè)挑釁問題。中國(guó)的Quoran們有很多臟話用來取笑越南人。
please don’t said and ask this directly to another Vietnamese in person. this person asking this is a Han Gian or bi than kinh. or trying to see who a nationalist in Quora!
請(qǐng)不要直接在越南人面前提這種問題。問這個(gè)問題的人可能是漢奸或有精神問題，或者是在看看誰是Quora上的民族主義者！
I am not sure if the question was fabricated to just stir up an absurd discussion. If you feel you have more Han blood than Kinh blood in your vain then you are a Chinese or a hybrid; there would be nothing wrong or unusual if you feel you belong to China in that case. Otherwise, I can't see how a Vietnamese would feel that he or she would belong to a foreign country, not to mention China.
我不確定這個(gè)問題是否是故意制造荒謬的討論。如果你覺得你體內(nèi)有更多的漢族血統(tǒng)，那么你就是中國(guó)人或混血；如果真是這樣，感覺自己屬于中國(guó)也沒什么不對(duì)或者不尋常的。但否則，我看不出一個(gè)越南人會(huì)覺得自己屬于其他國(guó)家，更別說中國(guó)了。
1. From historical records, we know that a large number of ancient Chinese inhabitants once immigrated to Vietnam.
In fact, on genetic testing platforms like 23andme, Vietnamese people who have had their genes tested will find that they actually have Chinese Han ancestry.
Technically speaking, Vietnam is the country with the highest Chinese ancestry in the whole of Southeast Asia. The next highest is Thailand, where 40% of Thais are thought to be of Chinese descent.
And judging by the current community postings on genetic testing platforms such as 23andme, perhaps 70 or 80 per cent of people in Vietnam are actually of Chinese descent.
But all this is not yet known to most Vietnamese.
1.根據(jù)歷史記錄，我們知道大量古代中國(guó)人曾經(jīng)移民到越南。事實(shí)上，在像23andme這樣的基因測(cè)試平臺(tái)上，做過基因測(cè)試的越南人會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)他們實(shí)際上有中國(guó)漢族血統(tǒng)。嚴(yán)格來說，越南是東南亞血統(tǒng)中漢族血統(tǒng)最多的國(guó)家。其次是泰國(guó)，據(jù)信40%的泰國(guó)人有中國(guó)血統(tǒng)。
根據(jù)當(dāng)前基因測(cè)試平臺(tái)的社區(qū)發(fā)布內(nèi)容，可能70%到80%的越南人實(shí)際上是漢族血統(tǒng)。
但這一點(diǎn)大多數(shù)越南人目前并不知道。
And as the interaction between the two countries deepens further, more and more Vietnamese will start to learn Chinese characters again. This is partly to interact with China, and partly to understand the ancient culture and history of Vietnam.
More people, in this way, will see the historical truth instead of what has been tampered with.
從未來來看，我相信隨著基因技術(shù)的普及，越來越多的越南人會(huì)意識(shí)到他們實(shí)際上是漢族人，或者他們的祖先是漢族人。
隨著兩國(guó)交流的加深，越來越多的越南人會(huì)重新學(xué)習(xí)漢字。這部分是為了與中國(guó)交流，另一部分是為了了解越南的古老文化和歷史。
通過這種方式，更多的人將看到歷史的真相，而不是被篡改的內(nèi)容。
In the past, there were many literati who did not do well in the imperial examinations on the Chinese side, and some officials who were relegated to exile because they had made mistakes, who went into exile in Vietnam, and these people started to go crazy against the central government because of their own interests.
Crucially, after the Song dynasty, the Vietnamese dynasties continued to request enfeoffment and tribute from the central dynasty.
2.事實(shí)上，越南與中國(guó)的古代獨(dú)立根本就不算真正的民族獨(dú)立。這個(gè)觀點(diǎn)已經(jīng)在Sang Phan的回復(fù)中提到過。
過去，有許多在中國(guó)科舉考試中沒有考好的士人，還有一些因犯錯(cuò)被貶謫的官員，他們流亡到越南，這些人因自身的利益開始瘋狂反對(duì)中央政府。關(guān)鍵是，在宋朝之后，越南的各個(gè)朝代仍然不斷向中央朝廷請(qǐng)求封號(hào)和進(jìn)貢。